This is a amazing comment and I stole it (thank you Captain Awkward) to share with you, my loyal readers.. It is long, but necessary.
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“Not surprisingly, I have a story? It’s pretty long, and I’m sorry. My husband, Doctor Glass, recently went on a weeklong workshop. The participants worked on teams, slept in a dormitory, shared meals and spent all day together. While there, Dr Glass acquired a strikingly beautiful female friend, who was absolutely luminous – like a fallen star or a revolutionary. She was also just about to enter university, making her very much younger than Dr Glass. They were on the same team, had much in common, and seemed to enjoy each other.
However, there was a twenty-something dude on the course who, according to Dr Glass, “made things awkward.” Immediately, he tried to make the workshop all about his pantsfeelings for Luminous Girl. Although he was on a different team, he was constantly buzzing around Dr Glass and Luminous Girl, getting in their way (which was dangerous and distracting, as they were doing physical labor) and trying to get her to talk to him, work with him, come over and look at his work, etc. In return she tried to ignore him, laughed him off politely, repeatedly referenced her desire to do her work, physically moved away whenever he got close to her, and stuck like glue to Dr Glass; saying NO in all those thousand little pleasant ways that women are trained to do. Awkward Dude tried to impress her with physical activity, but Dr Glass cut him off because he was being distracting. Confused and annoyed, Awkward stepped up his Game, trying to impress her with his intellectual cred, and it went down like a lead zeppelin, with Luminous and Dr Glass resuming their own work and conversations. So Awkward started loudly asking wasn’t Dr Glass married?!
At this, Awkward Dude attempted to kill Dr Glass with his laser-eyeballs at every turn, lurking and glaring and pining like a bad Snape impersonator. (Dr Glass wasn’t sure why he was suddenly the target of the resulting animosity, as he clearly had no romantic interest in Luminous, until I explained it to him: Dude had decided that the reason Luminous Girl was not sleeping with him was because she was the Possession of Another Male, and further, a Male who Already Had His Fair Share of Females; thus Dr Glass was the enemy for not shunning her and leaving a clear path for fellow males. “Oh,” said Dr Glass in sudden revelation, “That makes sense, I guess.”)
But the guy persisted – it wasn’t that Luminous didn’t like him! It was that she was clearly in thrall of my husband. The solution was to get her alone! So whenever they sat down to a lecture, Luminous, practically dragging Dr Glass by the arm, would move like lightning to position herself between him and a safe wall – with her lovely admirer circling them and glaring, loudly asking Dr Glass about his Wife Back Home. Awkward Dude implied that Dr Glass was creepy and odd for always hanging out with a girl half his age. Awkward Dude was annoyed that the course director, an older woman who should presumably know better, had assigned dorm space based on teams, so that Dr Glass and Luminous bunked in adjacent rooms (while he, Awkward Dude, was in the wing with the married couples!) because it was inappropriate and wrong to place a married man next to a teenaged female. On a particularly cold day, Dr Glass noticed that Luminous did not have warm clothing, and lent her an extra hoodie. It happened to have his name on it; Awkward Dude practically ignited, to the point where even the other people on the course were laughing awkwardly at him and saying “Uh, she’s… allowed to wear clothes?”
Luminous and Dr Glass both liked hiking, so one evening after dinner, they went out for a hike by themselves – not inviting the others in case Awkward Dude got wind of their plans. (“I mean, it sounds cruel, but I just hated him,” Dr Glass said.) It was after curfew when they walked back to their rooms,and the halls were completely dark; Dr Glass hung back to fill his water bottle. When he got to the rooms, at the end of the corridor, Luminous had been cornered by Awkward Dude. When Awkward spotted Dr Glass, he yelled at him about how inappropriate it was to go hiking alone with Luminous. Luminous seized the opportunity to flee to her room, locking the door. “I think it’s inappropriate to police her hiking,” Dr Glass said mildly and went to bed.
The next day was the last day of the course, and Dr Glass had had enough. Awkward Dude was “trying it on” in front of the whole group, making everyone uncomfortable. He had dragged Luminous into yet another unwanted conversation and Dr Glass called him out, in front of everybody, a deadly blow to Awkward’s pride. Awkward Dude tried to appeal to the group – he was only trying to be friendly – but Dr Glass had him up against the ropes, metaphorically, he’d broken the floodgates, and everyone began to laugh at Awkward instead: the old married couples, the other young men, and Luminous.
“I really feel bad about that, actually,” Dr Glass said. He hadn’t really wanted to humiliate the younger man in front of everybody, especially since his only crime had been really inept flirting. Was it really Dr Glass’s place to speak for Luminous? Perhaps he’d made a big deal out of nothing. But Dr Glass didn’t regret it. He just felt odd. He didn’t know why he’d been so savage over something so banal as Awkward’s favorite movie. He was pretty sure that he didn’t regard Luminous as a possession, or something to be protected. He’d just snapped.
“OH MY GOD,” I replied, “WHY DIDN’T YOU DO MORE? WHAT A FUCKING CREEPER!”
Well, Dr Glass wanted to assume good intentions on everyone’s part. They’d all lived together, after all, eaten together, worked together. Emotions had run high. It would have been pretty terrible for the Dude if he’d been ostracized right at the beginning, just because he wasn’t very good at talking to girls. After all, he was there for the workshop. They all were.
“AAAAH,” I wound down, “But what Luminous? WHOSE WORKSHOP WAS RUINED BECAUSE SHE DIDN’T FEEL SAFE?! She couldn’t just relax and enjoy spending time with you/her other new friends/nature – she practically had to have a bathroom buddy! He didn’t even let her focus on the work she was PAYING MONEY to do! You did not cross a line! HE CROSSED THE FUCKING LINE!”
Dr Glass totally agreed. But he still felt oddly uncomfortable about it all, as if there was something there to regret, like he was missing a piece of the puzzle. And then I asked The Question. And after I asked The Question, his face changed. He looked sick. “I didn’t think of that.” After The Question, he wished he’d been more explicit – gone to the course director. Been there more for Luminous. The good intentions that he wanted to assume, the passes he was willing to give the other man, evaporated, completely. They had evaporated for me, halfway through the story.
When I tell this story to women, they spot The Question right away. The men don’t; they think that Dr Glass behaved like a gentleman, neither doing too much nor too little. They are feminist men, and good people. They have read “The Gift of Fear” and they talk about privilege and the patriarchy, and they don’t spot it.
The Question is this: Why Was Awkward Dude Waiting For Her In The Dark?
Earlier in the story we heard that his own room was far away from hers. It was dark, at the end of a dark hall. He was waiting there, after midnight, with the lights off. HE HAD BEEN WAITING FOR HER IN THE DARK AT THE END OF A DARK HALL AFTER CURFEW, HE KNEW SHE HAD GONE OUT AND HE WAS WAITING FOR HER TO COME BACK. He was angry when he realized that she wasn’t alone. And Luminous was afraid – bolting into her room. Locking the door. And the women go HOLY FUCK WHAT IS THAT as soon as they hear about the atmosphere, and the men just accept it as another anecdote of Awkward Dude’s awkwardness, you know? Because how rude/silly/inept to pester a woman about hiking with another man! While the women are going BAD INTENTIONS BAD INTENTIONS FUCK SHIT THAT WOULD NOT HAVE ENDED WELL. And then you point out The Question to the men, and wait a while, and they suddenly go OH. OH MY GOD. WHY WAS HE WAITING FOR HER IN THE DARK. THAT’S – THAT’S PRETTY FUCKING SKETCHY. Everything changes. Dude-sympathy is gone. They put on the Matrix-goggles and peer into the world that apparently only women see. Awkward cornered Luminous in the dark after curfew at the end of the hall when he thought she was alone and he had a lot of anger and when my husband showed up he read Luminous as afraid and she ran into her room and locked the door. That is the reality. The good intentions, they are not there. Perhaps Awkward would have said that they were, that we, in our paranoia, are seeing rape in every dark corner. Perhaps he was trying to apologize for his previous behavior, or lend her a book, or make sure that she got back safely from her hike… so he’d chosen to do so alone, in the dark, making her afraid. That was what had been bothering Dr Glass. He wasn’t wearing the Goggles of Feminine Intuition, but he picked up on the signals that something wasn’t right. Seeing the Question doesn’t make you paranoid – it means your instincts are working.
If you live in the world of women, it isn’t your duty to educate everybody, to hand-hold and explain, to pass out Matrix-goggles. It’s Situation Normal: All Fucked Up. But perhaps you, Letter Writers, have good men, men who just need to wear the goggles.
That’s not really what I think, but our society is fucked up. I’ll assume good intentions on their part. Maybe it will help.”
Did you miss the question? Ever wonder why explaining rape culture to people is so triggering and difficult (and necessary)? Its because sometimes people just don’t see it or refuse to see it.
If you did see the question, good on ya and keep up the good fight.
bleatmop
Mystro
The Arbourist
Dead Wild Roses 
13 comments
August 23, 2012 at 7:37 am
John
Interesting, well written story. I didn’t get the question. Now I know.
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August 23, 2012 at 9:45 pm
VR Kaine
This Dr. Glass sounds like a great guy, and I respect the civility, but once again another creep gets away with this kind of behavior. Some guys suffice with a little humiliation and a good talking to, others need a flat-out ass kicking for a point to really register. Dr. Glass should have also had Dr. Kickass with him on the hike to and address this loser on a more primitive level.
Great story. Enlightening! Thanks for sharing.
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August 27, 2012 at 8:46 am
V
What bothers me incredibly about this story is that Luminous is an object. She is never expected to DO anything. She is either the object of attraction for the Awkward guy, or she is something to protect for the doctor. Dr. Glass’ wife asks him why HE didn’t do more… I don’t see why he should. Why should he play the Knight in Shining Armor riding to the rescue of a helpless princess? I understand that to some extent, it’s a matter of personality, and it’s harder for some people to stand up to others. But you cannot rely on someone else always stepping up to the plate for you. If someone is pushing you off of a cliff, you push right back. That girl should not have cowered and waited while Awkward’s tactics escalated. She should have (publically, perhaps) told him in no ambiguous terms that he is an asshole, that his behavior is incorrect and unwelcome and WHY it is so. If, following that, he still continues to harass her, go to the program director or someone else with the authority to help her. Just don’t be such a passive wuss, don’t preemptively play the victim.
(….And because this does color the perception of my response, I am a woman.)
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August 27, 2012 at 10:24 am
The Arbourist
@V
Should she have to do anything other than attend the conference and learn the material?
The questions raised by the article allow much discussion on the “should haves” and possible courses of actions. The line of questioning you are pursuing sounds like it is based on at least one, possible more faulty assumptions about the dynamics involved. The first being that there is an equal playing field when it comes to bodily autonomy – in public situations it is often the case that women’s bodily autonomy shifts from her space being her own, to being a space used for public consumption – that is all of a sudden it is okay to touch, grope, grind, grapple with a woman whether her consent is given or not. Observe the behaviour of dudes in public transit or in bars or anywhere in public really some men think they have the right to proposition, catcall, slap/pinch et cetera women around them. Consider what effect this has on one’s psyche when you need be wary just being in public. Men, in general, almost never have this problem and therefore do not think about it.
The second assumption that could be erroneous would be the idea that men and women are socialized similarly. They aren’t as you well know. Most women are socialized to be “good girls” and not cause a fuss. They are socialized not be authoritarian and independent. This, among many societal factors, puts women at a disadvantage when trying to establish boundaries and to be heard in social situations. The idea that no means no and consent are concepts that are still percolating into the general societal zeitgeist.
Tough call, sometimes creepers get violent when you tell them off, often they are stronger than you are. Her (luminous) actions could have been predicated on previous experience with creepers in which dealing with them in a less direct way was “successful” for her. We are not told much about her backstory, so this is just speculation.
Err…we should keep in mind that she is there for a conference. Is it unreasonable, as a attractive woman, to expect to go to a conference with the goal of learning the material and not having to worry about anything else? Being creeped on, defending one’s personal space and autonomy, rejecting advances etc are part and parcel of the experience of many women. This extra baggage that women have to deal with is a constant drain on their resources making their social interactions more complex thus making it difficult to rely on any one course of action. So, given that we don’t know her background or her experiences, it could be misguided to say that Luminous should have done “x” given situation “y”.
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August 30, 2012 at 11:51 am
elodieunderglass
I wrote “The Question” and after taking a break from the Internet due to its reception, I have been following up on the more positive reactions! Thank you for sharing it, DeadWildRoses/The Arbourist et al, and for introducing me to your interesting blog!
Over the past week I have heard some truly astonishing iterations of “Whether Luminous Should Have Been A Better (Punchier, Yet More Vulnerable) Victim With Her Very Own Totally-Not-Creepy-To-Provide Background And Two-Paragraph Monologue In the Middle Of Elodie’s Story In Captain Awkward’s Commentspace” or “Long Expositions from Manly Men About Why Everybody Involved Should Have Been More Violent And Why Doesn’t My Fictionalized Husband Punch More People Because That Totally Solves Rape Culture (In My Own, Equally Fictionalized Mental Universe.)” None of these people actually pause to think about “Hey, looking past the gimmick, this is a story about gender socialization in rape culture. Maybe I shouldn’t perpetuate useless solutions like ‘perfect victims’ and ‘moar punching!'”
To readers like V, this is my response and it still stands… But Arbourist, your response is so much better and more perfect that I may have to use it, closing a nice little circle!
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August 31, 2012 at 12:17 am
The Arbourist
@elodieunderglass
I followed your link back to the discussion –
Nice comment, Elodieunderglass. It was eloquent and sadly necessary for the society we live in. I’m sorry that the story brought you so much negative dudely attention/push-back.
I think unconsciously the dudes know they are on the wrong side of history and feel the need to furiously clutch the sand of their dudely wisdom as it runs through their fingers.
Please feel free to borrow anything you find here, the useful bits are few and far between. :)
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November 22, 2013 at 4:17 pm
Shane
I find “the question” interesting… There is a lot going on in the article…
I believe that the reason the situation existed in the first place is that our society is still trying to determine/develop acceptable roles/attitudes/etc for men/women.
Here is my response to a G+ post in which “the question” was placed:
And…. The reason Dr Glass didn’t intervene EARLIER?
1) He understands that many might agree with Awkward that it was inappropriate for Luminous and Dr Glass to be spending time with each other… Regardless, of whether there was any merit to those opinions or not.
2) He, like many men today, are more and more indoctrinated that women CAN AND WILL stand up for themselves and don’t appreciate when a MAN does that “for them.”
So, what he does instead is try to “walk the line” between being there for Luminous without appearing to “be the knight in shining armor” that so many women degrade and say they don’t need… As well as not be too aggressive in standing up for her – thereby, giving the appearance that he is “defending his relationship” against another “suitor.”
This all comes down to the confusion men feel regarding how they were raised conflicting with the younger woman’s perceived demand for independence…
After all:
If I respond to a yes or no question with “mam” I’m not being respectful – I’m putting the woman down by insinuating somehow that she is “OLD.”
If I open the door for a woman or pull out a chair – I’m not showing that I value her – I’m displaying a belief that she is incapable.
If I stand up for her against an aggressor – I’m not standing up for a person who (while mentally capable) may not be physically capable of standing up for themselves – I’m displaying a belief that the female is too “weak” to stand up for herself….
The issue with your article is NOT that Dr Glass did anything wrong or that people missed “the question.” It is that society still hasn’t determined the nuances of how men/women interact between each other in current times….
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November 23, 2013 at 10:31 am
The Arbourist
@Shane
I’ve got a feeling that somehow this is going to end poorly Shane as the very first assumption you make is wrong. Roles and attitudes are codified in our society. Please see the notions of Patriarchy and the gender binary for more on this.
We’ll see where this goes, but it smells like you might start attributing male behaviour to what women do – The first rule of misogyny, I could be wrong but let’s continue to read and observe.
It is close to irrelevant what Awkward’s objections to Dr.Glass and Luminious were. Once stated, that should be the end of it. He’s harping on it because Awkward perceives that he is being cock-blocked and thus competing for a woman (treating the woman like property or a prize). Your assertion neglects the autonomy and personhood of Luminous who, as a rational human being can make choices of where she wants to be and who she wants to associate with.
Women are not socialized to make a fuss, or stand up for themselves. This assertion you are making makes would have it be that the feminism revolution has already happened and women are on equal footing with men.
They are not.
There should be no confusion. Treat women like they are fully human. This is not a difficult concept.
Treat women as beings with the same rights and autonomy that men get by default. This is not a confusing issue.
Say you’re sorry and ask how she would like to be addressed in the future. Problem solved.
Apologize if you’ve offended her and ask what would be better to do in the future for her. Different women will react differently…women are not a monolithic class.
If she’s offended or thinks its inappropriate, apologize and ask how to better deal with situations like that in the future. Again, not mysterious, not confusing.
Oh it isn’t? The author of the piece says it perfectly:
“Hey, looking past the gimmick, this is a story about gender socialization in rape culture. Maybe I shouldn’t perpetuate useless solutions like ‘perfect victims’ and ‘moar punching!’”
*facepalm* FFS. Go here and read what you’re supposed to get from the article.
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November 24, 2013 at 10:19 pm
Ioseph
@The Arbourist
“Treat women as beings with the same rights and autonomy that men get by default. This is not a confusing issue.”
Okay, so men will refuse to help each other unless asked explicitly. Men don’t assume that other men are helpless. You want men to treat women the way they treat other men?
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November 25, 2013 at 8:53 am
The Arbourist
@Ioseph
Welcome to the blog, loseph.
I’m not sure how this relates to what I said how women being treated with same level of rights and autonomy.
Similar treatment in society would be a good start. But I’m certainly not advocating for women to be like men – being just as shitty as those in control of society isn’t something to herald as final victory.
Nor do women, as long as we are generalizing.
On the rights and autonomy side – absolutely.
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November 26, 2013 at 9:01 am
holly
I fully understand the point of the story. However, the real question is what the crap is a married man lending his sweatshirt and going hiking after dark with a beautiful woman half his age? Regardless of whether or not it was innocent, it’s inviting speculation. My reaction to the wife telling the story would be ‘uh, they both enjoy hiking so they took a hike after dark and they’re bunking right next to each other….really.’ Perhaps Glass really is creepy and Awkward is not nearly as awkward as Glass makes him out to be. The story fails because I don’t believe the narrative.
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November 26, 2013 at 9:36 am
The Arbourist
@Holly
Welcome to the blog Holly. There are many aspects to this story that can be discussed and I think that what you have picked up on is one of the ways how the notion of the patriarchal gender binary shapes our perceptions. Patriarchy hurts both women and men – the idea that a man cannot handle his base sexual impulses is part of the stereotypical standards that men are judged by in society all the time.
Well, I’m glad that you’ve understood the story – heuristic parables are sometimes not as believable as they should be, but if they accomplish the goal of inspiring thought about the bigger issue, then I think the story could be considered a measured success.
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November 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm
holly
” – the idea that a man cannot handle his base sexual impulses is part of the stereotypical standards that men are judged by in society all the time.”
This has little to do with thinking that a man cannot handle his impulses. No married man or woman would behave this way and not expect there to be a hint of infidelity going on. You don’t refuse to go on a night hike because you cannot control your impulse, you don’t because, quite simply, it looks bad. (I fully expect you to deconstruct that.) And it can hurt your relationship with your wife.
Since this hike was germane to The Question, and I believe that is problematic in itself to the character of Glass, it may be worth changing the story to achieve the same effect. You could easily have the late night encounter without sending them off together first. Or having her wear his sweater. To me it is a distraction from the point of the story.
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