I needed some time to digest this story… Sorry folks but that is a lie. I needed some time to come back to a (relatively) coherent state before I could write reasonably about what went down with Savita Halappanavar.
A post filled with nothing but white-hot rage and invective against the pustulant ass-pimples known as pro-lifers (anti-choicers, for the sake of veracity) and their equally pustulant,delusion friends, the Catholic Church would serve little purpose other than giving the other side ammunition about how nasty I am (Humourless Feminist, Too Sensitive, Crazy Socialist, Militant Atheist etc…the list is long ). No, my ninnyhammerd-half-witted friends won’t get the pleasure because in Savita’s case there is nothing for me to add, the absolute horror and immorality of their position is chillingly clear – and a young woman had to die because of it (and women are dying of it here in North America too).
Let’s just look at how our pro-life catholic friends “helped” Savita Halappanavar – Analysis from Dr. Jen Gunter (I’m referencing Jen’s post to make my point, she does not hold the same opinion as I). [ed. bold text mine]
This is what is known. Savita Halappanavar was 31 years old and happy to be pregnant with her first child. Then, at 17 weeks, tragedy struck and she was “found to be miscarrying.” Her husband reports that she was in “severe pain” for three days at the hospital and a termination was requested. He says this request was denied because Ireland is “a Catholic country.” He and his late wife were led to believe that the law would only allow her to be delivered when there was no fetal heartbeat.
What does the standard of medical care say about this treatment? Without access to the chart, “miscarrying” at 17 weeks can only mean one of three things”
A) Ruptured membranes
B) Advanced cervical dilation
C) Labor (this is unlikely, although it is possible that she had preterm labor that arrested and left her with scenario B, advanced cervical dilation).
All three of these scenarios have a dismal prognosis, none of which should involve the death of the mother.
Okay, ground rules set. There were no mysteries here, the medical playbook is straight forward.
The standard of care with ruptured membranes (scenario A) is to offer termination or, if there is no evidence of infection and the pregnancy is desired, the option of observing for a few days to see if the leak seals over and more fluid accumulates. If no fluid accumulates and by some chance the pregnancy manages to go beyond 24 weeks (the vast majority of pregnancies with ruptured membranes delivery within a week), survival is unlikely given the lungs require amniotic fluid to develop. I have seen the rare case where a woman with no infection (and no fluid) elects conservative management in the hopes that might make it to at least 24 weeks in the pregnancy, however, I have never heard of a baby surviving in this scenario. Regardless, if at any point infection is suspected the treatment is antibiotics and delivery not antibiotics alone.
The standard of care with scenario B involves offering delivery or possibly a rescue cerclage (a stitch around the cervix to try to prevent further dilation and thus delivery) depending on the situation. Inducing delivery (or a D and E) is offered because a cervix that has dilated significantly often leads to labor or an infection as the membranes are now exposed to the vaginal flora. Many women do not want wait for infection. A rescue cerclage is not without risks and is contraindicated with ruptured membranes or any sign of infection. Rescue cerclage is a very case by case intervention and well beyond the scope of this post. These decisions are difficult and the mark of good medical care is that all scenarios are discussed, all interventions that are technically possible offered, and then the patient makes an informed decision. All with the understanding that if infection develops, delivery is indicated.
Medically speaking, Dr.Gunter explains the outcomes of what these religiously addled doctors did, or more specifically did not do.
As there is no medically acceptable scenario at 17 weeks where a woman is miscarrying AND is denied a termination, there can only be three plausible explanations for Ms. Hapappanavar’s “medical care” :
1) Irish law does indeed treat pregnant women as second class citizens and denies them appropriate medical care. The medical team was following the law to avoid criminal prosecution.
2) Irish law does not deny women the care they need; however, a zealous individual doctor or hospital administrator interpreted Catholic doctrine in such a way that a pregnant woman’s medical care was somehow irrelevant and superceded by heart tones of a 17 weeks fetus that could never be viable.
3) Irish law allows abortions for women when medically necessary, but the doctors involved were negligent in that they could not diagnose infection when it was so obviously present, did not know the treatment, or were not competent enough to carry out the treatment.
What we do know is that a young, pregnant, woman who presented to the hospital in a first world country died for want of appropriate medical care. Whether it’s Irish Catholic law or malpractice, only time will tell; however, no answer could possibly ease the pain and suffering of Ms. Halappanavar’s loved ones.
This is what we get when we allow insipid religious prevarication into important parts of our society. Mythology and magic have no place in secular institutions, not now and not ever. Yet we still allow the bullshite in despite the injuries, deaths and pain it causes. Religion poisons everything and everyone it touches and yet Religion is just one head of the hydra that conspired to end Savita’s life. By now the ironically named “Pro-life” band of fetus fetishists need to take their bows and unsuccessfully try to wipe their bloody hands of this uncomfortable case.
Savita’s death is on their hands because this is what you get when you don’t value women as people and see them only as incubators. Savita and other women are dying because of the batshite-insane anti-choice nuttery that goes on that somehow makes it okay to take women out of the pregnancy equation and deny her rights. So have your prayer vigils, your fetus-porn, your 40 days of fuckwittery – all so you can feel fucking morally superior(?) when a women like Savita Halappanarvar dies? Your fetid morality is repugnant and has no place in a civilized society… none whatsoever.
You know what the best tell is from these anti-woman fetus worshipping zealots is? The absolute fucking silence from the pro-life side of things when details of Savita’s death rang around the world. The author(s) over at Reasonable Conversation nailed it with this post which I excerpt here. [ed. bold text mine]
The fact of the matter is, these people can only thrive when the deaths are anonymous. The moment we had a name for one of the victims of their horrible and irrational beliefs, they needed to shut up and hide so nobody could ask them if Savita Halappanavar should have died, if it was god’s will, if they should have allowed her to be treated. They can’t answer these questions because the answers they would give would make them look like monsters if they were honest and undermine their message if they lied.
This. A thousand times just this.
This is why we fight for the rights of women because the regressive religiously addled view women as second class citizens not worthy of human rights or treatment. Your torpid bronze age shenanigans have gone on for much too long and hurt too many people. Where is the apology from the pope? Where is the outcry from the anti-choicers? There is none because they cannot or will not see the monstrous evil of their positions, better to whip up some more fetus porn or get some more red duct tape and pray to your imaginary sky-daddy.
When the consequences of your bullshite come to light the religiously anti-choice zealots scurry away from the light of reason(rule one in the nutter playbook), when the unnamed become named and the travesty of your rotten ethics is bared to light you offer no defense, because there is no defense for your untenable immoral position.
40 comments
November 17, 2012 at 10:36 am
Savita Halappanavar’s Death – Victory for the Irish Catholic “Pro-Life” Murder Brigade – The Skeptical Seeker
[…] Savita Halappanavar’s Death – Victory for the Irish Catholic “Pro-Life” Murd…. […]
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November 17, 2012 at 10:39 am
bj
One of these fuckdicks even went so far as to say that this is a ‘victory for pro-life, because without an abortion ban, many more would be dead’
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November 17, 2012 at 11:01 am
The Arbourist
@bj
The hatred for women is front and centre for so many of the anti-choice camp. You get these twisted beliefs from the sour pit of “religious morality”. What anti-choicers advocate is unconscionable and in Savita’s case terminal.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:08 am
The Arbourist
Reading a thread on Phrayngula where the Catholic Church is receiving a sound drubbing.
Gregory Greenwood said:
Whenever I think that catholics can sink no further, they always find new and inventive ways to scrape the bottom of that barrel just a little harder.
In this case, with a hacksaw.
*weeps*
Its so utterly sickening. This kind of thing is why I reserve a special hatred for those who cover up the rape of children, murder women, and generally spread pain, death and suffering in the name of their infantile delusions of a magic sky fairy.
Hell doesn’t exist, which is just as well for them. If it did, the whole putrid lot of them would deserve to rot in it.
—————————————————————–
NateHevens @ 44;
With the Catholic Church, there is no bottom.
I am afraid you are right. I always want to believe that there is some fundamental spark of empathy – some point at which compassion will reflexively kick in when one person sees another in pain – that will stay their hands, but it’s just wishful thinking. There is no pit of depravity into which these ghoulish death-cultists won’t sink, no horror they won’t perpetrate in the name of their imaginary god.
It does lead one to wonder – if people like nolajim [insert your favourite persons suffering from religious here] were listened to, and the catholic church’s agenda went unopposed, how far would these power hungry, woman-murdering priests go? What shape would their ideal society take? I imagine that, at the very least, it would amount to turning back the clock to the days when women had the legal status of chattel rather than people, and could well go even further to a society that openly treats women as breeding livestock, complete with ear tags to denote ownership, bloodline and breeding viability, to be used up and then cast aside. Or maybe rendered down into some kind of Soylent Green-esque foodstuff used to cheaply feed the other brood mares women.
And so long as the threat of prison was hanging over them if they didn’t do it, the nolajims of the world would be lining up to take jobs administering the breeding centres. Afterall, if one apparently can’t expect someone to risk imprisonment just to avoid killing a pregnant woman, then why should we expect any better in a scenario such as the one I outlined above.
‘Just following orders’. It’s the usual excuse in such cases.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:08 am
bj
I am calling one on it now. This guy likes to think of himself as a ‘humanist’ yet he believes in forced birth.
I pointed out, as did others, that every pregnancy, no matter how successful, has the potential to kill a woman. That he does not care if I die, that in fact, he will gladly accept my death if it means a fertilized egg can live.
He accused me and the other woman of ‘false victimization and lies’ and stormed off, swearing that he would not debate such liars any longer!
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November 17, 2012 at 11:13 am
The Arbourist
@ bj
Excellent. Repugnant ideas must be called out for what they are.
Did he mean that reality was no longer lining up with his shitty version of ‘ethical behaviour’? It certainly sounds as if he’s packing up his toys and going home.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:21 am
bj
he is completely and utterly ignoring the fact that by letting an embryo develop it can potentially kill a woman
doesnt.fucking.care
http://freethoughtblogs.com/reasonabledoubts/2012/11/14/rd-extra-is-abortion-murder-debate/#comment-9344
and to questions he does not want to answer, he simply says “You have many questions to ask and I don’t want further dicussion on other issues.”
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November 17, 2012 at 11:22 am
bj
Oh, I should add, those ‘questions’ he does not want to answer – those questions involve the REALITY of the legislation he wants enforced. Yep, he does NOT want to talk about actual.real.world.fallout of his beliefs
Now why is that I wonder?
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November 17, 2012 at 11:26 am
The Arbourist
@bj
Because admitting that sort of weapons grade stupidity/misogyny is hard?
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November 17, 2012 at 11:34 am
bj
Exactly. And every anti-choicer I have EVER come across – they all outright REFUSE to answer my reality based questions. They will either say something like ‘well mandatory organ donation for all persons is different just cuz’ or they will completely avoid answering and pretend it did not happen.
They love to keep it theoretical for that very reason. They also, when pressed, fall back on screeching ‘BUT THE BABBBY IS GONNA GET ITS ARMS AND LEGS CHOPPED OFF HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF THAT HAPPENED TO YOU EVIL EVIL EVIL !!!!!!11112@#$#”
:p
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November 17, 2012 at 11:49 am
The Arbourist
@bj
What better way to deflect their hatred of women than to light the emotional but its a baaaaaaaabeeeeee trope and try for the ‘ole appeal to emotion.
Thanks for the link to the thread, I think… The amount of fetus fetishism going on their makes me angry at how stupid people can be.
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November 17, 2012 at 11:52 am
syrbal
And isn’t it nice to know that the great state of Ohio has a plan to pass a “heartbeat” law….that would set in motion scenarios exactly like this one?
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November 17, 2012 at 11:59 am
bj
oh yeah, they are not stopping at all!
however, it is nice to see that after this tragedy, pro-choice sentiment is up, rather than down
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November 17, 2012 at 12:07 pm
bj
arbourist: I hate to say it, but it will take women dying again, to put a stop to this insanity. Women going to jail for the ‘death’ of an embryo.
A tiny part of me hopes that Personhood laws go into effect, and that these dumbfucks actually try to enforce them, and that every miscarriage is investigated.
The fact is, pro-life keeps winning because people are so isolated from the pain and destruction of forced-birth. Most people do not have a clue what this means. It is too abstract.
If anything good can come from Savita’s death its that she is not just another anonymous victim – she is a real person who died a real death thanks to the human qualities that people ascribe to a clump of cells.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:07 pm
The Arbourist
@syrbal
The original title to this post was “Irish Pro Life Catholics can go to Hell – Fuck you and your Medieval Bullshit”
I wrote that on the day that this story broke, but decided to let myself simmer for a bit. I’m thinking now that may have been a mistake.
Ohio is really going to pass legislation like that? How unfrakking surprising that the religious right is leading the charge back to the dark frakking ages.
Let’s just skip all this foo-furah and start collaring women so we know who they belong to and how good a breeding stock they are. Hells ya and for that matter why do we need to educate them or even clothe them? Broodmare-dom for the winz!
*taps table* – Historically, no rights have *ever* been given to people. There has always been struggle and only when people stand together and force change in the status quo does change happen.
It feels like we have a fight on our hands…
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November 17, 2012 at 12:15 pm
The Arbourist
@bj
Women are dying now. Because of the fuck-wittery, as evidenced on the thread, politicians can see profit in supporting anti-woman legislation. Because it has religious backing (spits) it has legitimacy of a sort.
Fetus-porn is available almost on demand. Complex notions like forced birth and the mother’s situation take time to process and understand. It is our burden to bear, but I would argue that any rational stance taken for female autonomy is worth an internetz full of fetus-porn.
If this was in a America, I have no double Fox news would be smearing her character and doing their best to slutshame her for wanting to make a choice about her body (frak its simpler than that, this was a medically necessary undisputable clear cut case of what should have happened if even one whit of medical ethos was to be followed).
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November 17, 2012 at 12:21 pm
bj
I love the people on Pharyngula
This guy is pissing me off though:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/2012/11/15/because-abortion-needs-to-be-explained-apparently/#comments
He claims to be on our side, but any woman who expresses outrage over pro-lifers is deemed to be irrational, emotional and trolling.
He is engaging in sophistry, I suspect.
To be honest I have not studied philosophy since 1995, but I think I know ‘word-games’ when I see them.
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November 17, 2012 at 12:34 pm
bj
Apologies for bombarding you with misogynistic claptrap that will most likely piss you off even more:P
I am guilty of unloading, these guys have annoyed me considerably!
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November 17, 2012 at 12:41 pm
The Arbourist
Hey, I’ve been there. When the BS is up to your eyeballs it *is* nice to unload in a safe harbour.
No apologies needed :)
Reading the threads I can see considerable evidence of why you might be feeling a slight sense of disapprobation toward these fine upstanding
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November 17, 2012 at 12:53 pm
bj
Bryan, on the second thread, is pissing me off most of all. He knows the pro-choice cause better than a bunch of whiney women!!
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November 17, 2012 at 1:01 pm
The Arbourist
@bj
Well it would seem (I’m not finished reading the thread) that you’ve been ‘over-using’ your fluffy-pink-ladybrain with all this near hysterical, emotional chatter about your rights and your autonomy. It may be time to let the menz in to have a serious discussion about your rights.
*irony meter goes …poof…*
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November 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm
bj
oh man, now I have pissed off the owner of crommuinst by comparing ‘men know more about womens rights with ‘wihtey knows more about black rights’ as an example
of course, sexism is nowhere near as bad as racism now, is it? I apologised, but I think he is in the wrong, to suggest that sexism is somehow not as bad as racism.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:09 pm
bj
Sexism, and misogyny, more than race, are SO deeply ingrained in ALL cultures that people take it for granted. Racism is seen as an obvious ‘bad’, yet pornography, because its such a part of our culture, is wholly acceptable. So is paying women less. So is forcing women to bear children they do not want.
This is why it is so easy for guys like Bryan to tell us fluffy brained womenz to stfu, HE knows better. Probably does not even realize he is doing it. Its just a given that women are the dumz.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:21 pm
The Arbourist
@Bj
You don’t say…
Isn’t it wonderful to start ever argument with the otherside *knowing (gift granted by the pee-pee, no less)* that you are wrong? The joy of the perpetual uphill battle – always – with the time taken for careful research and fact-checking casually dismissed because “it couldn’t possibly be like that“. What goes for as common ‘knowledge’ these days sure looks a hell of lot like propaganda to ensure the continuing state of affairs and marginalization of dissent.
Do you have blog? I’d like to link to it if you do :) If not, please consider joining the DWR braintrust of writers and contributing your thoughts to the blog.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:22 pm
bj
No, I don’t. Ive been lurking however, for the last 6 months.
I want to thank you, specifically, for introducing me to the atheist experience. That soon led to ‘the thinking atheist’ ‘godless bitches’ and a host of other blogs.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:31 pm
bj
And you flatter me, but I am a terrible writer. Writing is painful for me. It takes effort to punctuate, to capitalize, and to avoid run-on sentences :P
You are quite eloquent, unlike me :)
If you want to link to a great blog, I would suggest this one: http://francoistremblay.wordpress.com/
I LOVE this guy. He has some really great, unique arguments regarding abortion and natalism. He puts the entire abortion debate in a perspective that I have never thought about before.
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November 17, 2012 at 1:59 pm
The Arbourist
@bj
Oh, well thank you. I’m glad that some good has come from the prolix my cohorts and I whip together here at DWR. I’m glad you have travelled beyond the narrow confines of what we address here. :)
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November 17, 2012 at 2:04 pm
bj
I have also linked your blog to the Prime Directive a couple of times :P
I loved the thing from susan brownmiller!
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November 17, 2012 at 2:07 pm
The Arbourist
@bj
As an English teacher and blogger extraordinaire having examined your arguments and style on other sites, would have to declare in my thoroughly professional opinion that your writing is not “terrible”. Quite the opposite, your style is cogent and your reasoning generally sound.
Oh dear, don’t let the others hear you say that. I will face nothing but scorn and witty rejoinders from the others. :)
Thank you, I’ll look it up. I’ll also leave the door open on the guest post suggestion. You can email me at arbourist@hotmail.com if the burning desire to be published ever overtakes you.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:12 pm
The Arbourist
@bj
I would highly recommend reading her book. You know all those oogy-things you suspected were true – they are :( It is best read in small doses, like Chomsky or Zinn in order to maintain emotional buoyancy.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:12 pm
bj
English teacher, awesome!
You know one reason my English is so bad? Years of irc and video games. I have
liek
totally
become accustometd
to , literally
typing like htis
fast
and stuffs
get the thoughts out, fuck puncutation
:P
Giving up IRC and video games, and reading/debating on various blogs has helped to improve my communication skill:P I used to be a pretty decent essay writer, but years of irc and video games literally lead to the example above!@
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November 17, 2012 at 2:17 pm
syrbal
Yes, with our hands…our teeth, and rocks if we can get them. I blogged about this early in the week, feeling the same sense of absolute fury.
I hate feeling as if I have woke up in a real life version of a Darkover novel dystopia where jeweled bracelets DO mark women as property.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:26 pm
The Arbourist
@syrbal
A big shoutout to the zany religious right for bringing dystopian visions to life! *sigh*
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November 17, 2012 at 2:34 pm
syrbal
Yes, they who miss the idea of the “cautionary tale” completely.
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November 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm
bj
People miss the idea of ‘cautionary tale’ so easily because they think such things can *never* happen in this day and time. They also think that they, and all their buddies, are all too wise, and clever, to let such things pass.
Just look at what is happening in Canada now. Harper can get away with his bullshit because he is counting on this very thing.
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November 17, 2012 at 8:41 pm
ajit vadakayil
Hi,
Punch into google search SAVITA HALAPPANAVAR , THE MURDER OF THE HIPPOCRATIC OATH–VADAKAYIL
Psychologists will say– If someone starts telling you what country you’re in , or telling you screamingly obvious facts about that country, ( Ireland is a Catholic country etc ) it’s time to look to start worrying, and buzz off from there— EL PRONTO–
— for they now intend to teach you a lesson you will never ever forget.
If you make the mistake of looking them in the eye , tellin’ you are NOT Catholic or Irish , but a Hindu Indian —
— then only God save you from Catholic vindictiveness, we in India are too familiar with this during our 400 years of slavery, to white Catholics.
Wise men will tell you that people simply do not bring up the country they are in , in a context just like that unless they are being racist.
Wisdom dictates — Savita’s tearful termination pleas were taken less seriously because they were perceived as the pleas of an unchurched , uncouth , pagan foreigner who should have some more respect for Irish Catholic beliefs and values.
Which Indian doctor will tell a Catholic white woman that you are in HINDU INDIA now?
Capt Ajit Vadakayil
..
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November 18, 2012 at 4:29 am
nav
One of the worst happenings on 2012. Support and join the clause : https://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Savita/130967813722078
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November 20, 2012 at 7:28 pm
bob
great post about the pro-choice position, and a woman’s right to her own body
I find it particulary valuable when debating pro-lifers who seem to think that pregnancy is a minor-inconvience
After reading I had NO idea how damaging a pregnancy can really be to a womans body. It is absolutely horrifying that women are forced to go through this and have been for thousands of years.
Makes me sick:((
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May 1, 2013 at 6:02 am
5 Abortion Myths Exposed – Debunking Forced Birth Stupidity. | Dead Wild Roses
[…] The vast amount of shit the forced brith advocates spew into the interwebs lends new meaning to the word grotesque. Our anti-choice friends have been faffing on long and hard about Dr. Kermit Gosnell conveniently forgetting about Savita Halappanavar’s terminal experience with their fetid dogma . […]
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May 31, 2013 at 11:51 am
Again, “Pro-Life” is Death for Women – Beatriz in El Salvador | Dead Wild Roses
[…] birthers are about is stripping women of their rights and of their bodily autonomy. Beatriz, like Savita Halappanavar, is being put in mortal peril because where she lives the forced birth brigades ideas are reality, […]
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