A new discovery on Youtube brings yet another strong voice for rationality and reason to add to the secular chorus of enlightenment.
Your opinions…
The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
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bleatmop
Mystro
The Arbourist
Dead Wild Roses 
11 comments
November 6, 2010 at 8:59 am
Tweets that mention How to Fight god. « Dead Wild Roses -- Topsy.com
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Progressive Bloggers, The Arbourist. The Arbourist said: How to Fight god. : http://wp.me/pyhFw-FS […]
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November 6, 2010 at 2:03 pm
tildeb
Bang on.
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November 7, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
Continuing in my quest to find flaws in the almighty logic posted here, I question the argument that a ghost who is not subject to the natural law of gravity, because he has no mass, would necessarily fly off at a high speed into space because of the earth’s rotation and it’s revolving around the Sun.
True, gravity is what keeps us and our government masters firmly on the earth. Why would a ghost who is not subject to the natural law of mass and gravity be subject to the natural laws of centrifugal force or the laws of motion.
Just for the record, I do not believe in ghosts. I merely believe that you have failed to disprove their existence. Now I can prove that by using your own argument of what is or is not real by it’s obedience to natural laws that an existence of ghosts is a possibility.
Not everything that is real is bound by the laws of gravity, centrifugal force, or motion. Example. A human thought is real. It has great power to create and destroy. Yet a thought does not obey the laws of gravity, motion, or centrifugal force. In fact a ghost is a thought. It can have great power to influence human behavior.
Ok a ghost is a false thought, which is your point. I just do not accept that obedience to natural laws is a good thesis for disproving spirituality.
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November 7, 2010 at 2:58 pm
tildeb
Yet a thought does not obey the laws of gravity, motion, or centrifugal force.
Umm, yeah, it does.
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November 7, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Alan Scott
tildeb,
Alright explain please.
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November 7, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Mystro
AS – I question … that a ghost who is not subject to the natural law of gravity, because he has no mass, would necessarily fly off at a high speed into space…Why would a ghost who is not subject to the natural law of mass and gravity be subject to the natural laws of centrifugal force or the laws of motion.
You missed the point. The ghost would not be subject to any laws, as it’s not a physical entity. But as WE are, if a ghost were to appear at a certain point in the universe (say, right in front of you), within one second it would be 700 miles away, due to our solar system’s rotation within our galaxy. (well, even further due to our planet’s daily rotation AND its annual orbit, but you get the idea)
Restated, the ghost would not fly off, it would be absolutely stationary. But to us (because we sense things in relation to ourselves) it would seem the ghost flew off into space at an incredible speed, although it was us who did the actual moving.
And we know thought is responsive to physical laws because if we mash up someone’s brain (a completely physical activity), their ability to think plummets rapidly.
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November 7, 2010 at 9:25 pm
tildeb
I can interrupt your thoughts using gravity, motion, and centrifugal force. If your thoughts do not obey these laws then how can this be?
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November 8, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Alan Scott
tildeb,
” I can interrupt your thoughts using gravity, motion, and centrifugal force. If your thoughts do not obey these laws then how can this be? ”
True, you can interrupt my thoughts by all of those natural laws, but you cannot cause the thought to move because it does not exist in the physical plane. I can have a thought that I imagine I see a ghost. I can believe I see it. That ghost can have the same power as a grizzly bear to make me flee in terror.
My imaginary ghost does not obey any natural laws. If I have a rifle, I can shoot the bear because he is physical and the bullet will destroy his flesh as it passes through him . The ghost would not be harmed in the same scenario.
Mystro,
” Restated, the ghost would not fly off, it would be absolutely stationary. But to us (because we sense things in relation to ourselves) it would seem the ghost flew off into space at an incredible speed, although it was us who did the actual moving. ”
So because the ghost is not affected by the physical forces which cause us to be in motion, the instant he appeared we would fly off at great speed away from him. That is actually very logical. A ghost therefore has no absolute motion because with out mass, no force can set him in motion.
I have a cheap solution to this problem. The ghost may already be in motion when he appears. By coincidence his speed may exactly match our own. Now if he were subject to just a partial part of our laws, his linear momentum would soon cause him to speed away from our revolving journey. Since he is subject to none of our laws, his path does not have to be linear. Again coincidence, his path and ours’ could be accidentally match.
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November 8, 2010 at 7:55 pm
tildeb
AS writes you cannot cause the thought to move because it does not exist in the physical plane.
If that’s true, then where do your thoughts exist?
Re: ‘seeing’ ghosts… light requires mass to reflect off of. One cannot have an immaterial object that reflects light. That makes no sense.
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November 8, 2010 at 11:39 pm
Mystro
AS – I have a cheap solution
I applaud that you recognize that its cheap, but I don’t think realize how right you were there. To ‘accidentally’ match our movement would require a feat of luck unfathomable by even the most gifted statisticians.
Count it off, we have the Earth’s rotation, compounded by the Earth’s Orbit, compounded by our solar system’s orbit around the Milky Way, all of which is surely jostled due to continually shifting gravitational pulls of passing celestial bodies, compounded by the expansion rate of the universe…and that’s just off the top of my head.
I can’t imagine what would be involved in accurately plotting out our motion relative to the universe. The point is, only something reacting to physical forces could follow such a path, so the ghost definitely could not ‘coincidentally’ travel along side us.
Further, the hypothetical of a ghost starting in motion is nonsensical, in much the same way, as tildeb’s quite correctly pointed out, as how it would be impossible to see ghosts as light only reflects off matter.
Motion requires someTHING to be in one place, then, in another. If there is no mass to move, then motion is impossible.
And just to put your ‘thought’ counter example to rest, thought is unequivocally dependent on a brain of some sort. That brain is physical.
But if thoughts were nonphysical phenomena, they wouldn’t be able to react to the physical states of the brain. Thus, as they do react to the physical state of the brain, thoughts must be physical phenomena.
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November 9, 2010 at 3:46 am
Bleatmop
“True, you can interrupt my thoughts by all of those natural laws, but you cannot cause the thought to move because it does not exist in the physical plane.”
Actually, they absolutely do. You can see your thoughts happen using and EEG or MRI as a mixture of electrical and chemical activity. Just because you can’t see them with the naked eye doesn’t mean that they are supernatural.
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