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All too frequently when the horrible/insane/incoherant practices/beliefes/consequences of religious dogma are pointed out, one hears responses that try to dodge the point rather than address it directly. One of the most common of these dodges takes this approximate shape: “Why do you even bother? It’s not like religious people ever do anything harmful in this day and age. And if they do, those harmful actions are never based on their religious beliefs. You’re obviously just full of hate for people not like you, so I now get to disregard your point.” Typically, believers will also throw in a reference to some other part of their religion’s teachings which sounds nice and lovey dovey. Can’t have a problem with lovey dovey, can you?
First, I want to stress that this IS a dodge. It doesn’t matter if I happen to be the most hateful person on the planet or if the idea I’m attacking isn’t currently held by anyone alive today. Nor does it matter that Belief Y is a good one, if we are discussing Belief X. In rational discussions, one must challenge the actual points presented. It is meaningless to quibble over the context around them or to focus on something else. Plunging your head into the sand is not a valid reasoning technique.
Alternatively, one could concede the point and admit that said dogma/practice/belief is indeed horrible/insane/incoherent. Then you could start a second discussion to try to argue that the dogma’s despicable nature doesn’t influence the world in any meaningful way. While this would be acceptable, it’s rare that a theist is will allow that any of their core religious ideas are either loathsome or inconsequential, much less both.
Much more likely, the theist will refuse to return to the main topic until this non-sequitor is dealt with. In either event, I would like to share ProportionalResponse’s reaction. The suggestion that religion today is harmless would be laughable, if it wasn’t so spirit-crushingly sad. Here is a link to the full image, should you wish to study it more carefully.
This dodge neither reflects reality nor addresses the topic actually under discussion. It’s a cheap diversionary tactic of the desperate and/or lazy. Users of this dodge may leave, give their heads a shake, and come back when they’re ready to say something meaningful.
Theramin Trees a youtube author made a series of videos in response to the following questions.
This three-part series looks at:
1. What I believed when I was a theist
2. Concepts for gods I affirmatively believe do not exist
3. Concepts for god I believe to be unknowable
The first video, a trek into the author’s beliefs is fascinating as it is a tour of how his conception of the christian god evolved over time and where TT came to the conclusion that there was no God and that was the most reasonable hypothesis to hold given the current information.
Stay tuned for part 2 tomorrow. :)
Ah, progressive religious thought in action.
In another unsurprisingly putrid religious offering, the devout offer a lovely pastiche illustrating the misogyny, pettiness, and insular sectarianism that makes religion so repugnant to the rationally inclined.
“A shy eight-year-old schoolgirl has unwittingly found herself on the front line of Israel’s latest religious war.
Naama Margolese is a ponytailed, bespectacled second-grader afraid of walking to her religious Jewish girls’ school for fear of ultra-Orthodox men who have spat on her and called her a “whore” for dressing “immodestly”.
After significant media attention to the young girl’s plight, thousands came out to protest on Tuesday evening against gender segregation and violence against women at a rally in Beit Shemesh, 30km to the west of Jerusalem.”
These lovely ultra-orthodox men of faith have taken to harassing 8 year old girls because their immodest dress. Bare arms apparently qualify as immodest dress. Of course the gender policing going on here is not new – most religions by default destroy a woman’s autonomy and rights. The neat little twist here is that this is happening in a supposedly secular democratic state.
“Naama’s persecution has drawn new attention to the simmering issue of religious coercion in Israel, and the increasing brazenness by vigilantes from the insular ultra-Orthodox community.
“When I walk to school in the morning I used to get a tummy ache because I was so scared … that they were going to stand and start yelling and spitting,” she said in an interview with the Associated Press news agency on Monday.
“They were scary. They don’t want us to go to the school.”
The new girls’ school that Naama attends in the city of Beit Shemesh is on the border between an ultra-Orthodox neighbourhood and a community of modern Orthodox Jewish residents, many of them American immigrants.
The ultra-Orthodox consider the school an encroachment on their territory. Dozens of black-hatted men jeer and physically accost the girls almost daily, the students say. Televised images of Naama sobbing en route to school have shocked many Israelis, elicited statements of outrage from the country’s leadership and sparked a Facebook page with nearly 10,000 followers dedicated to “protecting little Naama”.
“Who’s afraid of an 8-year-old student?” Sunday’s main headline in the leading Yediot Ahronot daily said.”
Let me answer that for you. People so utterly screwed up on the stupid-shitty-ass Koolaid known as religion that they will verbally accost and spit on children because their magic book says so. Actions such as this are so obviously wrong, but the power of faith and religious wankitude allows the believers to soldier on in the face reality and ethical considerations.
“Beit Shemesh’s growing ultra-Orthodox population has erected street signs calling for the separation of sexes on the sidewalks, dispatched “modesty patrols” to enforce a chaste female appearance and hurled stones at offenders.
Walls of the neighbourhood are plastered with signs exhorting women to dress modestly in closed-necked, long-sleeved blouses and long skirts.”
Yep, take that you unseemly, unsightly, unworthy women…cover your shame. I’m thinking the Burka treatment is in order here, lets completely dehumanize women so we can completely strip them of their rights and membership in the human race.
“The Israel police are taking, and will take, action to arrest and stop those who spit, harass or raise a hand. This has no place in a free and democratic state,” he told his cabinet.
The abuse and segregation of women in Israel in ultra-Orthodox areas is nothing new, and critics accuse the government of turning a blind eye.
The ultra-Orthodox are perennial king-makers in Israeli coalition politics – two such parties serve as key members of Netanyahu’s coalition. They receive generous government subsidies, and police have traditionally been reluctant to enter their communities.”
Ah, the reason why the burning stupid remains. Women’s autonomy and rights can happily be thrown under the bus for political expediency. O how odious religion is when given political power and room to exist within a society. Here lies yet another shining example of why states MUST be secular and the boundaries between church and state must be clearly delineated.
Not so much of the unveiled hate we’re used to this disservice, but more of an exploration of the hoops people will jump through to keep their chosen godhead happy. This video is about growing up in a fundamentalist christian household and the demonstrably evil toys that were not allowed stain one persons childhood. One can never be too careful as we all know that Care-bears are the direct line to Satan.
My Little Pony is apparently hell on wheels as well. Behold!
I hope to inspire a little cognitive dissonance in the faithful. :)
Long live rational skeptical thought. :)
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