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7 comments
August 19, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Noam Chomsky on Afghanistan - An Immoral and Unjust War. | Γονείς σε Δράση
[…] post by The Arbourist var addthis_language = 'en'; Filed under Uncategorized ← The Meaning of […]
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August 20, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
I find it interesting that you have been bringing up Noam Chomsky. I wish I could remember how I first came to be aware of him. I think he came up from my research on Keith Olbermann, who I have the lowest possible regard for. The term ” Chomskyite ” came up. Being ashamed of not knowing an obscure term I researched Noam Chomski.
Of course since my point of view is politically opposite of Mr. Chomski, I chose to collect negative information on him. Scholars on my side of the aisle abhor the man. This is one article I found on him.
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton071004.htm
The Ayatollah of Anti-Americanism
by Bruce Thornton
Excerpt:
” In actual fact, the quality of Chomsky’s thinking is on a par with the rantings of a bus-stop conspiracy theorist. Yet Chomsky camouflages the essential irrationalism of his ideas with a carapace of footnotes and references that to the unwary suggest vast scholarly and empirical support. This barrage of facts, pseudo-facts, disputed facts, and outright lies is convincing to the badly educated, the ignorant, and those who simply don’t have the time or inclination to track down every reference and check every alleged fact. “
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August 20, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
I left out this on Mr. Chomsky.
http://www.zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000133.html
Excerpt:
” Noam Chomsky’s “Failed States” has elicited a perceptive analysis (you will have to read it in its entirety as Jeff Weintraub presented it here ) of the methods by which truths are converted to half-truths, half-truths to lies, and lies are transmuted to truth “
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August 21, 2010 at 10:54 am
The Arbourist
The article in question, has little or no academic merit. Other than being filled with unsubstantiated claims and silly comparisons it does not have much going for it.
Articles that actually contain evidence of the accusations presented would be a good starting point because claiming that someone quote mines and then not giving an example is not arguing, but slinging mud, which is uninteresting to say the least.
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August 21, 2010 at 11:19 am
The Arbourist
Of course since my point of view is politically opposite of Mr. Chomski, I chose to collect negative information on him. Scholars on my side of the aisle abhor the man.
Then it would be wise to study what Chomsky has to say and study his arguments and find their flaws as it would greatly strengthen your position. Finding out what other people say and why they say it is what debate is all about. Simply gathering ‘negative information’ about any particular source does nothing but reinforce one’s own worldview. Without critically challenging one’s own assumptions or being open to changing one’s point of view intellectual growth stagnates and dogmatic certitude sets in.
The claim that Chomsky is anti-American is laughably specious. Why he engenders so much criticism is that he dares to apply the same standards we use on the rest of the world to us.
For example, the US sponsored a bloody proxy war in Nicaragua for years, the US actions were deemed to be state terrorism by the International Court of Justice. If Nicaragua could follow the same rules as the US, then they would have the right to attack the US, or even preemptively attack the US for possible state terrorism in the future. Why is it okay for the US to do ‘x’ and not other countries to do the exact same?
The halo most people see surrounding our culture of being just and promoting liberty and democracy worldwide is challenges the acceptable image of north american culture and the mainstream academia and media do their utmost to perpetuate this myth. For this universalist stance Chomskey takes undeservedly gained the reputation of him being anti-American.
This is a good debate between Dershowitz and Chomsky. Take heed of both speakers as both make important points.
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August 21, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
You said,
” Then it would be wise to study what Chomsky has to say and study his arguments and find their flaws as it would greatly strengthen your position. ”
Ok, as the man said, we’ll play in your ballpark. But first.
This is a quote from the Ayatollah of Anti Americanism piece.
” In Horowitz and Ronald Radosh’s “Chomsky and 9/11,” the authors analyze Chomsky’s outrageous claim, in a speech delivered after the beginning of the U.S. war against the Taliban, that millions of Afghans were “‘on the verge of starvation'” and that the American military was pressuring Pakistan to eliminate the convoys delivering aid,” actions he called “‘some sort of silent genocide.'” In other words, the American government intentionally was engineering the deaths of several million Afghans.
Of course, as Horowitz and Radosh write, “in reality no such thing transpired. Not 10 percent of Chomsky’s 3 to 4 million starved; not 1 percent; no one hundredth of 1 percent. His statements can only be described as calculated lies.” In actual fact the Bush administration and the military engaged in something unprecedented during wartime–adjusting their military actions to ensure that civilians were fed, not to mention the extraordinary efforts, taken in Iraq as well, to avoid civilian casualties. More food was available to Afghans after the war started than there was before. Yet when in 2003 he was confronted with these facts on the ground that belied his slanderous predictions, Chomsky simply denied he ever made the charge, calling it an “‘interesting fabrication.'” ”
So you say that this is a false statement ? Chomsky never said that ? Well in fact,,,,,he did.
http://www.matrixmasters.com/wtc/chomsky/bully/bully.html
” Let us start with Afghanistan, where seven or eight million people are on the verge of starvation, and surviving on international aid since way before 11 September. On 16 September the US demanded that Pakistan stop the truck convoys providing much of the food and supplies to Afghanistan’s civilian population ”
You said, ” The claim that Chomsky is anti-American is laughably specious “. Then I will laugh along with you, because what you said is quite humorous. :)
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August 22, 2010 at 9:19 am
The Arbourist
The context of the quoted material takes on a different light when you get the entire body of what Chomsky actually said. Keep in mind, this statement was in 2001, and not 2003.
Even before Sept. 11, the UN estimated that millions were being sustained,
barely, by international food aid. On Sept. 16, the national press reported that
Washington had “demanded [from Pakistan] the elimination of truck convoys
that provide much of the food and other supplies to Afghanistan’s civilian
population.” There was no detectable reaction in the U.S. or Europe to this de-
mand to impose massive starvation; the plain meaning of the words. In subse-
quent weeks, the world’s leading newspaper reported that “The threat of mili-
tary strikes forced the removal of international aid workers, crippling assistance
programs”; refugees reaching Pakistan “after arduous journeys from Afghani-
stan are describing scenes of desperation and fear at home as the threat of
American-led military attacks turns their long-running misery into a potential
catastrophe.” “The country was on a lifeline,” one evacuated aid worker re-
ported, “and we just cut the line.” “It’s as if a mass grave has been dug behind
millions of people,” an evacuated emergency officer for Christian Aid informed
the press: “We can drag them back from it or push them in. We could be look-
ing at millions of deaths.”1
The UN World Food Program and others were able to resume some food ship-
ments in early October, but were forced to suspend deliveries and distribution
when the bombing began on October 7, resuming them later at a much lower
pace. A spokesman for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees warned that
“We are facing a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions in Afghanistan with 7.5
million short of food and at risk of starvation,” while aid agencies leveled
“scathing” condemnations of U.S. air drops that are barely concealed “propa-
ganda tools” and may cause more harm than benefit, they warned.2 […]
So looking at the article, the claim of millions dead was made by a spokesperson from the UN High Commission for Refugees. It seems to me these are on the ground estimates given the current situation at the time.
Let’s also find the genocide quote, because Chomsky’s critics seem to uncharitably attack him on that particular point as well.
[…]The UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to
Food pleaded with the U.S. to end the bombing that was putting “the lives of millions of civilians at risk,” renewing the appeal of UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson, who warned of a Rwanda-style catastrophe. Both appeals were rejected, as were those of the major aid and relief agencies. And virtually unreported.4
In late September, the UN Food And Agricultural Organization warned that over 7 million people were facing a crisis that could lead to widespread starvation if military action were initiated, with a likely “humanitarian catastrophe” unless aid were immediately resumed and the threat of military action terminated. After bombing began, the FAO advised that it had disrupted planting that provides 80% of the country’s grain supplies, so that the effects next year are expected to be even more severe. All ignored.5
These unreported appeals happened to coincide with World Food Day, which was also ignored, along with the charge by the UN Special Rapporteur that the rich and powerful easily have the means, though not the will, to overcome the “silent genocide” of mass starvation in much of the world.6
Let us return briefly to the point of logic: ethical judgments and rational
evaluation of what may lie ahead are grounded in the presuppositions of planning and commentary. An entirely separate matter, with no bearing on such judgments, is the accuracy of the projections on which planning and commentary were based.
The footnotes for this section:
5. “UN food agency warns of mass starvation in Afghanistan,” AFP, Sept. 28; Edith Lederer,
“U.S. bombing disrupting planting which provides 80% of annual grain harvest,” AP, Oct. 18,
2001. Andrew Revkin, “Afghan Drought Inflicts Its Own Misery,” NYT, Dec. 16, 2001, citing U.S.
Department of Agriculture, with no mention of bombing. return
6. “Global hunger a ‘silent genocide’ – UN rights expert” (Jean Ziegler), AFP, Oct. 15, 2001.
Okay, here are Horowitz’s claims:
“Of course, as Horowitz and Radosh write, “in reality no such thing transpired. Not 10 percent of Chomsky’s 3 to 4 million starved; not 1 percent; no one hundredth of 1 percent. His statements can only be described as calculated lies.”
It looks like to me that Chomsky is going by the best information available at the time provided by the experts who were on the ground in Afghanistan providing aid. How Horowitz and Radosh get to “calculated lies”, is a rather large leap of logic but an easy rhetorical one as they have the advantage of hindsight when they addressed this topic.
From the Horowitz and Radosh criticism:
“that millions of Afghans were “‘on the verge of starvation’” and that the American military was pressuring Pakistan to eliminate the convoys delivering aid,” actions he called “‘some sort of silent genocide.’” In other words, the American government intentionally was engineering the deaths of several million Afghans.”
I’m curious as to how Jean Zeigler’s comment on silent genocide in the world suddenly became Chomsky’s own words on US actions in Afghanistan. Read the actual paper not just the quote mined stuff with the pre-made conclusion tacked on at the end.
In other words, the American government intentionally was engineering the deaths of several million Afghans.”
Nowhere did Chomsky say this particular phrase. This conclusion was arrived on by the authors of the paper criticizing Chomsky. If we look at the next paragraph we can see that Chomsky is saying that rationally including disrupting of aid into war plans is not an ethical action.
Let us return briefly to the point of logic: ethical judgments and rational
evaluation of what may lie ahead are grounded in the presuppositions of planning and commentary.
So really, in fact, Chomsky is talking about the level of ethos involved in the planning the *possible* starvation of millions of people. Chomsky, in the video clip that is part of this post, also refers to and refutes this particular criticism as it is a baseless and rather uncharitable attack on a strawman that was not his position.
I suggest checking the veracity of your sources before making claims on erroneous information they provide. Just because you happen to agree with them does not necessarily mean they are right.
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