The New Testament is all about love. Sure, there was some practices promoted in the old testament that could be considered a bit brutish by today’s standards, but Jebus fixed all that, not by recanting any of those barbarous edicts, but by saying ‘love your neighbor’. So you see, all you christian naysayers, the new testament represents a much nicer and loving image of god. Oh, yeah, one more thing, he also invented hell.
I was quite shocked to learn that the old testament doesn’t speak once about a lake of fire or eternal suffering anywhere within its dreary pages. Brimstone and torture that lasts forever was introduced by the new testament. Now up until I learned that, I was of the mind that the new testament was just as horrible as the old, but with this new tidbit of knowledge I find that the new testament is far worse than the old in terms of brutality and moral perversion. Allow me to illustrate.
For this thought experiment, we need to be able to quantify the amount of suffering, or evil, that a person could do in his or her lifetime. Just for the sake of humourous triviality, I will call the units of this quantification “sin points”.
Let’s say we have an absolutely wonderful person, a real saint. Nice to everyone, very giving goes the extra mile to make the world a better place. Now, people being the fallible entities that they are, it wouldn’t be realistic to say that this person would acquire zero sin points throughout his life, so let’s say someone like that would only get one. The average person, let’s say, would get something like 1000 sin points in their life (that first guy was really REALLY nice) and your average rapist murderer type person would get 1 trillion.
Now, since we imagined one of the best people that could exist (only one sin point, for goodness sake!) lets also imagine the worst. This individual not only hates people enough to do horrific things to them, but through some unlucky circumstance, he also acquires the longevity and resources to take out this hate on more people over a longer period than anyone ever has in history. Imagine if, say, a Hitler type decided that anyone who did not have green eyes deserved much worse than death. So, this super Hitler successfully creates a worldwide totalitarian regime wherein he lives a long life of torturing billions of people death in the most excruciating ways possible. Even after his death, it takes the globe about 3 generations to recover from super Hitler’s reign of terror. Now this is one bad hombre. How many sin points does he get?
Well, a murderer gets 1 trillion. If the murderer uses torture, let’s say, it’s upped to 1 trillion squared. Multiply that by the number of people Super Hitler tortured to death (let’s say 10 billion people, just to say he was extra mean) and square that for all the suffering involved in the global recovery (a bit excessive, but we are making this guy the worst possible person) and just for good measure, lets square it again. Grand total that’s 1X10 to the power of 128 sin points (that’s 1 with 128 zeros after it, in case it’s been a while since your last math class).
Wow, that guy sure has a lot of sin points built up. Now then, let’s take a look at the prospect of justice in the hereafter. Let’s say there’s a god and he figures that, for every sin point
worth of evil you cause in your life, you have to endure 1000 years in hell to make up for it. That means our super good guy (his name is Ted), for his one sin point, has to endure a millennium of unbearable torture to make it into heaven. I’d say that’s pretty harsh, but then, who am I to argue with a vengeful god?
Of course, this means much worse things for the average person than it does for our super good guy. The average person would spend 999,000 more years in hell than our super good guy, for being average. That is a lot of time with the ‘ole flaming thumb screws.
But lo, what does this mean for the Super Hitler? My goodness, he’ll be suffering quite a bit. According to the rule, he has to endure 1×10 to the power of 131 years in hell to make up for his life. But lets say that, for such a special case, the celestial judges call for some extra heavy penalties. Instead of the lowly 1000:1 ratio, for this guy they are going to square his sin point total, and then square it AGAIN to determine his allotted punishment. That would be 1×10 to the power of 1012 years in hell!
To sum up of all this, we have a super saint of a guy serving a millennium in hell, an average guy serving a million years, and the worst possible human ever serving more time in hell than any of us could comprehend. I would hope that most of you would agree that these are overly harsh punishments their misdeeds. And the point of this lengthy thought experiment is to note that these extreme sentences are finite. They end. At some point, the punishment stops.
Now then, compare this with the actual concept of hell. EVERLASTING torture. Compared to eternity, that extraordinarily harsh and unimaginably long sentence of 1x10to the 1012 years is not even a blink. That is what infinite means; any number you could possibly conceive of is insignificant in comparison.
The conclusion of all this is that it is impossible for a finite entity (like a human) to earn an eternal consequence, good or bad. Thus, any deity that would condemn anyone to a fate of eternal suffering must be classified as infinitely sadistic, cruel, and amoral. Even if hell housed only one soul, the very worst person ever, the injustice of that sentence would infinitely outweigh any amount of bliss that everyone else got to experience in the afterlife.
If anyone ever tells you that Jesus is a god of love, their statement is an affront to the notion of love in the highest severity. If anyone ever says that brutality only exists in the old testament, their statement betrays a complete absence of consideration. Any religion that preaches of an eternal hell is one of hate and horror, no matter how many messages of “love” they use to cover it up.



23 comments
April 20, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Russ
Suppose that a finite person could commit an infinite crime. Suppose a finite race of beings rejected and crucified the infinite, eternal God. Would that not be a crime deserving infinite punishment?
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April 20, 2010 at 11:48 pm
Mystro
No. Again, the suffering they caused to said “god” was finite. Finite evil cannot deserve infinite punishment. See math above.
Further, I would say that evil done unto an infant, one who is helpless, is worse than an otherwise equivalent evil done unto a full grown adult. Carrying that through, it stands that similar evil done unto an omnipotent being is pretty much negligible.
Both those points aside, I’m pretty sure that getting crucified was part of jebus’ plan, if I understand the myth correctly. Otherwise us poor wretched humans would be stuck with that original sin we didn’t earn ourselves, and we’d all go to hell forever, even if we all managed to only accumulate one sin point during our own lifetime (How about that? This ‘god’ character is as just as he is loving). And abetting Jebus with his plan can’t be evil, can it?
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April 21, 2010 at 10:02 am
The Arbourist
Suppose a finite race of beings rejected and crucified the infinite, eternal God.
If you are omnipotent why let yourself be crucified in the first place? I mean really, you just need to toss some lightning bolts around and then would have all the sheep herders scurrying about all hurlyburly.
Would that not be a crime deserving infinite punishment?
Hmm, probably not because since as god I would well..fix whatever was pissing me off so did not have to manically torture people for infinite periods of time.
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April 22, 2010 at 11:30 am
intransigentia
Unless that’s your idea of a good time of course. (But then you’d be evil, at least by finite, human standards.)
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April 27, 2010 at 7:03 am
What does my name mean?
wat is your myspace page
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April 28, 2010 at 8:31 am
Tweets that mention Jesus loves the Hell Math « Dead Wild Roses -- Topsy.com
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Abraham Varghese. Abraham Varghese said: Jesus loves the Hell Math « Dead Wild Roses http://bit.ly/90cPPZ […]
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April 28, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Mystro
Currently, I have no myspace page, just this blog. I am looking into expanding my web presence when I obtain a bit more free time, but this is it for now.
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April 30, 2010 at 2:54 pm
limewire
wow fun info dude.
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October 19, 2010 at 8:31 pm
The Arbourist
Good for reference.
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February 19, 2012 at 6:16 am
The DWR Sunday Disservice – Christianity Fails at Objective and Moraility « Dead Wild Roses
[…] to the christian god that are about as far from ‘good’ as one can get (examples 1 2 3). This will usually result in the believer switching to the first position addressed in this […]
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February 19, 2012 at 6:26 pm
Alan Scott
Arbourist,
Considering that you guys believe God doesn’t exist, you sure accuse him of a lot . I believe, in a prior post, you accused him of causing rape and murder in the old Testament. If he does not exist then all of that rape and murder used to clear the promised land for the chosen people is strictly on them. Which makes them no worse than the other bronze age tribes If he is guilty, then he must exist. Yet he is imaginary.
By your science he cannot exist, yet he is guilty of rape, murder, eternal punishment in hell, and not giving us all of the answers . Perhaps he is the same as an imaginary number. You’re all college boys so I know you are all familiar with that paradox. The square root of minus one cannot exist by mathematical law. Yet it is used to solve mathematical problems so it does exist.
To you God is imaginary, yet you are trying to kill him. He is imaginary, yet he is guilty of crimes. But you are not really trying to kill an imaginary God, are you ? You are trying to kill the belief in God. You are trying to kill an idea . That is really hard, to kill an idea. The Romans fed Christians to lions and could not kill the idea, yet you educated heathens believe you can succeed. But that is not fair even to call you heathens, because even they believe in something .
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February 20, 2012 at 12:35 am
Mystro
“Considering that you guys believe God doesn’t exist, you sure accuse him of a lot”
We judge the character of god as portrayed by christians and the bible. The fact that the character doesn’t actually exists does not impede our ability to clearly demonstrate that it is evil. Like Skeletor, the Sith, Sauron, Voldemort, and No Heart, it’s easy to determine that they’re no good by looking at the works of fiction where they reside.
Unfortunately, unlike all the other bad guys I mentioned, there is a huge population of world influencing adults who believe this god is not only real, but good. This has resulted in untold suffering and continues to be a blight on society.
” Perhaps he is the same as an imaginary number.”
If that were true, then this god would somehow be useful in understanding something, which just isn’t the case.
” You are trying to kill an idea .”
We are trying to expose an idea as being incoherent, false, and harmful. I notice you have said exactly nothing to counter any of the points which support this.
“But that is not fair even to call you heathens, because even they believe in something .”
1) I’m pretty sure ‘heathen’ means ‘not christian or jewish’, so it would apply to us. I would only argue that the label in no way deserves its negative connotation.
2) The whole ‘atheists don’t believe in anything’ bit is utter nonsense and beneath you. Please comment with at least a bit of consideration.
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February 20, 2012 at 10:32 am
Alan Scott
Mystro,
I must correct you. In my own little way I strive to be accurate . Heathen is interchangeable with Pagan and primarily deals with religions that believe in multiple deities . These were mostly the Germanic pre Christian religions of Northern Europe. I am accurate in the context I used to imply that you Atheists do not believe in anything . You believe in nothing spiritual.
For you to be consistent you have to hate heathens more than you hate Christians and Jews because their multiple Gods are telling them to commit more evil.
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February 20, 2012 at 10:38 am
The Arbourist
The fact that the character doesn’t actually exists does not impede our ability to clearly demonstrate that it is evil. Like Skeletor, the Sith, Sauron, Voldemort, and No Heart, it’s easy to determine that they’re no good by looking at the works of fiction where they reside.
No Heart is finally moving up in the world, sharing digs with the likes of Skeletor and Sauron. *cheers*
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February 20, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Mystro
” In my own little way I strive to be accurate .”
Only striving to be accurate in a little way might be your problem.
” Heathen is interchangeable with Pagan and primarily deals with religions that believe in multiple deities .”
It seems to me that what the heathen actually believes isn’t all that important, but rather that they are not of “the one true religion” and ought to be scorned for it. Like so many things in chritianity, the exact details of what it means to be a heathen depends on which christian you ask. Ultimately, it boils down to just another hateful term with which to label outsiders.
” You believe in nothing spiritual.”
There is huge difference between not believing in anything at all and not believing in gods, smurfs, and pixies. It is a common, idiotic, and insulting tactic of many believers to conflate the two. Don’t be one of those.
“For you to be consistent you have to hate heathens more than you hate Christians and Jews because their multiple Gods are telling them to commit more evil.”
It doesn’t matter how many imaginary things a person believes in, only how much harm their beliefs inspire. When was the last time you heard of a pagan lobby group preventing marriage between same shakra couples? Or pagan governments beheading people for not being a witch? Or pagan parents teaching generations of children that they are so despicable and wretched, that if it wasn’t for the grace of their many gods, they would deserve eternal torment? Yeah, doesn’t really happen. Should any such things happen, I of course would be against them. Today, however, the fact is that the evils of christianity far outweigh those of paganism, which is why I’m more likely to post on those.
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April 4, 2012 at 1:38 pm
jake
God is the only one that can make a judgement on anyone, sin is sin, there is none greater or less then the other. If you dont except him as lord then you too will meet the desever in Hell.
Works will not get you there, nor will self sacerfic. The only way to heaven is tho the Lord God almighty.
Sorry for spelling….
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April 4, 2012 at 11:58 pm
Mystro
“God is the only one that can make a judgement on anyone”
I’m sorry you feel that you lack the mental capacity to assess behaviour and determine whether it is good or bad on your own. It really isn’t that hard. It does require actually thinking about morality, though.
“sin is sin, there is none greater or less then the other”
I’ve posted on this idea before, but I’ll leave the research to you. The quick version is anyone who thinks rape and murder is as bad as stealing a pack of gum is disgustingly immoral. That goes for you and your god.
” If you dont except him as lord then you too will meet the desever in Hell.”
Threats and coercion. The methods of any truly horrible tyrant. Evil tyrants like your god ought to be fought, not praised.
“Works will not get you there, nor will self sacerfic. The only way to heaven is tho the Lord God almighty.”
Translation: your god doesn’t care who is good, it just cares who will suck up to it. Why would you worship such a shallow and wretched entity?
“Sorry for spelling….”
Spelling is the least of your problems. Your utter lack of personal ethics, your complete unwillingness to think critically about the “morals” presented by this religious view, and your unquestioning obedience to an obviously corrupt and malicious (not to mention fictitious) authority figure are of much greater concern.
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April 5, 2012 at 10:54 am
The Arbourist
God is the only one that can make a judgement on anyone,
The mythical being in question “god” – like unicorns and Thor – is the only one eh? Says who and with what evidence? I am much more likely to believe in Ceiling Cat than any of the dusty turds that get trotted out from the bible.
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May 13, 2012 at 6:27 am
The DWR Sunday Religious Disservice – Jesus Loves the Hell Math Redux « Dead Wild Roses
[…] ago Mystro wrote a persuasive piece about how horrible the ramifications are of being tormented for eternity and the loopy logic involved therein. Today’s Disservice will revisit that topic, only now in a helpful youtube video format to […]
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September 30, 2012 at 6:01 am
The DWR Sunday Religious Disservice – Eternal Sin « Dead Wild Roses
[…] there, that wins me eternal damnation. Don’t you feel the kindness and the loving of the christian god? I know I do. What kind of horrible fucking being demands blind devotion or else its a permanent […]
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June 16, 2013 at 6:04 am
The DWR Sunday Disservice – Not My Law! – Sanctimonious Christiains and Their Codswallop. | Dead Wild Roses
[…] The idea that there is one unified church in America is just wrong. In reality it is a sectarian paradise with more sects and factions than you can shake a bible at, all condemning each other to eternal torment in the various circles of hell in a festival of hatefappery happily condoned by their god(s). This kind of inconsistency doesn’t make a whit of sense, but then this is place were we get the natty idea that “God loves you, but ooooooh you’ll burn forever sinner!”, you know, the standard religious boiler plate notion of mandatory cognitive dissonance. […]
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April 11, 2014 at 3:48 am
makagutu
Interesting thought experiment.
The question we all must ask at the end is what does the good god hope to achieve through this punishment in hell? Is there a world beyond which those that manage to get free will occupy? a purer world perhaps?
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April 11, 2014 at 10:28 am
Mystro
@makagutu
“what does the good god hope to achieve through this punishment in hell?”
Indeed, the answer to your question reveals something quite important about the “good” god. As hell is eternal, there can be no goal or purpose associated with it. If the idea was “we put people in hell to get result X”, as soon as result X was achieved, then a person’s time in hell would be over. Quite simply, in order to be eternal, there can be no reason for hell. Thus, any religion claiming an all good god and a hell are stuck with the only position that suffering unimaginable torture forever is good in and of itself. That position would require either a total lack of morality, a monumental inability to recognize logical contradiction, or both.
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