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17 comments
March 1, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Bleatmop
“Fox News North” does not exist and no plans for FNN to exist are in the works. That is unless Sun media is owned by FNN and I didn’t know it. Calling this planned new station FNN reeks of being disingenuous at best and fear mongering at the worst in my opinion. It will have neither the exposure nor the budget. Nor would it coming up here contaminate Canada any more that it already is. Ezra Levent? Rutherford? Alder? Don Martin? I don’t even have to limit myself to the right for examples of “journalists” taking quotes out of context here in Canada.
I’m all for having high standards of journalism here in Canada, but given the list above, I don’t see the standards getting lowered with a potential right wing news station joining the fray. Also, as I understand, the national post wasn’t doing well. If that’s the state of the premier right wing newspaper in the nation, I don’t see much hope for this right wing tv station.
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March 1, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Alan Scott
I personally would love to ride trains over cars or flying for long or moderate distance traveling. I would love an auto train. But passenger rail service in the US has been a losing proposition since the late 1940s. The United States simply cannot afford to build these rail lines and it cannot afford to permanently subsidize them .
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March 1, 2011 at 9:37 pm
The Arbourist
Bleh, made it through the CRTC.
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March 1, 2011 at 9:40 pm
The Arbourist
Well that seems like a reasonable argument Mr.Scott, I guess my question is then why does FN deem it important to veer away from factual arguments and rely on lies and spin to make its point?
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March 2, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
” why does FN deem it important to veer away from factual arguments and rely on lies and spin to make its point? ”
So say all of you. I personally cannot verify or disprove independently what Foxnews or you say .
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March 2, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Bleatmop
Really? You cannot verify or do fact checking when you have the internet? Have you considered triangulating what you are seeing by checking on different sources? Different media outlets? Government websites? Just saying…
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March 2, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Alan Scott
Bleatmop,
” Really? You cannot verify or do fact checking when you have the internet? ”
You really cut me to the quick. I feel so ashamed,,, not. I am not on the ground in California . On this issue I have the feeling that to know the facts you have to be . You say just go on tha innnernet and triangulate. Okay, lets see what happens when I do what you say.
First off I don’t trust your sources as you would not trust mine. In the video your guys mention the ridership and revenue forecasting study. Well apparently this is a big deal to you because you fault Foxnews for not mentioning it . Well how do I know it is honest ? The California High Speed Rail Authority. I am guessing is invested in getting these billions spent on this train. It would be surprising if any study they did would not be very positive .
I can readily find sites that say the study is no good.
http://www.dontrailroadus.com/facts.html
” A UC Berkeley Institute of Transportation Studies report says the data used by bullet-train planners is so “unreliable” that it is impossible to predict whether the project will be successful or lead to “severe revenue shortfalls.” ”
Just saying. Anyway, Foxnews is right, it is a train to nowhere. There is no way to know whether the rest of the line will ever be built. I am sure it will be a very nice choo choo and will make it’s contractors rich. Whether it will ever cover it’s extremely high costs is doubtful. An honest cost benefit analysis is needed and impossible to get .
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March 3, 2011 at 5:52 am
Bleatmop
“An honest cost benefit analysis is needed and impossible to get .”
Well, unless you actually read that full 59 pages of the UBC document and the responses to it therein the link you provided. There is actually what seems to be a detailed analysis. Then, should you wish to dig deeper, you can actually check the sources that each side in that debate are using. Just simply copy the body of the references, put it in google, and after 4 different clicks, I found a free copy of this journal article here:
Click to access issue_9_thakuriah.pdf
Now when you’ve read every reference that is cited in the UBC article that you sent me, and you still don’t feel like you know enough, you can continue reading that references found in every other article. It’s simple. It’s not necessarily easy nor quick, but it is simple to do. It only requires you put more than 2 minutes worth of effort into forming your own opinions.
Also, to your point about about the above video being my video and my sources listed, they are not mine. I don’t have a dog in this fight. If California builds a railroad or not, it does not change or affect me one iota. My points were that you seem to think that you can’t know anything about this debate unless you are “on the ground” in California, presumably where they are or are intending to break ground to build this railroad. I do not believe that is true, and I’m not sure what you would learn by actually being there that would be different from pouring over the articles and proposals wrote about this decision.
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March 3, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Alan Scott
Bleatmop,
I have a dog in this fight, my federal tax dollars. If California was paying for this on their own, I would not care . Although a State like California that is barely solvent really should not do a deal like this . Everything I’ve ever read on rail transportation in the US says that it is not profitable . I read where even in their heyday before cars and planes railroads lost money on passenger service . They have always earned their money on freight .
When I clicked on your link I got a paper on railroads in India . I don’t believe it is applicable to California .
Anyway the original point was that Foxnews skewed the story by leaving out relevant points. I remain unconvinced .
Have a nice day .
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March 3, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Bleatmop
Alan Scott – The link I provided was one of the papers referenced in the link you provided and was provided for illustrative purposes to further my point. Perhaps I didn’t make that clear before. I’m also not interested railroads, but in your assertion that you cannot verify facts unless you are at the place something is happening.
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March 3, 2011 at 7:28 pm
Alan Scott
Bleatmop,
I really did not believe you wanted to carry the argument this far. I am the one who usually wins by attrition on these boards . People just stop answering me. You on the other hand have surprised me . You come back each time for more .
Do you really expect me to accept your sources ? I am used to bias in the news and can generally work around it . When I can’t I say so .
I ‘am ‘ interested in trains. My grandfather drove one. I am particularly interested in the economics of why passenger service died in the first place, and why you liberals want to bring it back .
I concluded years ago that you guys are addicted to unworkable solutions that require massive government subsidies . There is no other answer possible for this, for wind and solar, and for corn based Ethanol.
In fact if high speed trains ever become economical I expect you guys will turn against ‘ big rail ‘ . It is what you do .
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March 3, 2011 at 8:31 pm
Bleatmop
Alan – I was actually trying to converse with you. Apparently you don’t even read my posts, because if you did, you would realize it was the evidence that your source used that I provided a link to. Thus it wasn’t my source, but your sources source. So in the spirit of no longer wasting my time, feel free to post a response to me after this, I won’t respond, and you can declare some sort of victory. That or you can take this as some sort of victory, or whatever your want I guess. Enjoy.
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March 3, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Vern R. Kaine
Finally watched that clip. I guess CBC got called out for it and responded, saying it was wrong, they were wrong, and they regret doing it. (“regret”?)
“Ya, but at least they responded and corrected themselves! Fox NEVER Does!” The CBC apologists will say, and the battle will go on. Every station has to cater to its advertisers, and to the people who give them their ratings in order to charge advertisers top-dollar. The CBC is no exception, and their news has a slant just like everyone else’s does.
Like you say in your other comment, we’ve all got the ability to triangulate and fact-check much of what we see/hear/read as far as news goes. If the topic matters that much to us, that’s what we should do.
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March 4, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Alan Scott
Bleatmop,
While I will write long posts, I do not necessarily read long posts. If I am tired and what you write does not grab my attention, I will skim over it . I love to argue with you guys and try to disprove everything you post . It’s what I do, because I honestly believe the owners here are severely misguided .
I apologize for not digging further into the details of what you wrote to give you a better discussion . Just not on my A game this week.
Please, just keep posting those attacks on Foxnews, Christians, Capitalism, big oil, big coal, the nuclear industry, the American military, heterosexuals, masculinity, and the people on the right. I hope I left nothing out .
Again you caught me unprepared, no one on this site has ever answered me as many times as you did . When I get angry enough and have more energy I will do better.
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March 5, 2011 at 8:49 am
The Arbourist
Again you caught me unprepared, no one on this site has ever answered me as many times as you did .
Are you ever curious as to why this is so unusual Mr. Scott? Most of the time it seems your answer reflexively with an ideological point rather than a related point, making arguing with you a very frustrating experience as rather than dealing with the issue at hand, one must wade through rhetoric and red herrings to make or defend a point.
Please, just keep posting those attacks on Foxnews, Christians, Capitalism, big oil, big coal, the nuclear industry, the American military, heterosexuals, masculinity, and the people on the right. I hope I left nothing out .
Statements like this make it seem like you give your uncritical support to an umbrella of ideas and ideologies. Rather than look at the some of the facts and opposing ideas when it comes to important issues in society you choose the false certainty and firmly believe that your side is right in every case.
I mean, one can glean from your perspective much insight into other topics which you believe as well. You most likely are a global warming skeptic, are against “big government” and taxes, and are strongly under the spell that the market will fix everything.
If I were to recognize that many people thought the same as me and had such a fortified position with so many answers provided, I would be uneasy because having all the answers provided for you discourages questioning the system and engaging topics with one’s critical faculties.
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March 5, 2011 at 8:44 pm
Alan Scott
The Arbourist,
” Are you ever curious as to why this is so unusual Mr. Scott? Most of the time it seems your answer reflexively with an ideological point rather than a related point,”
I find that statement slightly hypocritical because I find your postings to be ideological to a great extreme.
” Rather than look at the some of the facts and opposing ideas when it comes to important issues in society you choose the false certainty and firmly believe that your side is right in every case. ”
I find that being accused of thinking that I or what I believe is without fault is merely a debater’s trick. I have had it used on me many times . If I admit that sometimes I am wrong then somehow all of my positions must be inferior to all of your positions .
” You most likely are a global warming skeptic, are against “big government” and taxes, and are strongly under the spell that the market will fix everything. ”
Not that the market will fix everything. Not that everything will be perfect. Just that in many cases the market is better than whatever it is you will come up with.
I don’t know if you get old American TV shows up there in the great white north. Doesn’t matter, I will bore you. On the old Hogan’s heroes, Hogan and Klink were disarming a bomb. With one last wire to cut, Hogan asked Klink which wire he thought they should cut to not get killed . Klink picked one and Hogan cut the other one, which turned out to be correct.
Klink asked Hogan why if he knew which was the right wire, did he ask. Hogan said, ” I didn’t know, but I knew you would pick the wrong one. ” It’s not that I believe my views are always right, it’s more that I believe you are always wrong .
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March 6, 2011 at 7:54 am
The Arbourist
If I admit that sometimes I am wrong then somehow all of my positions must be inferior to all of your positions .
Or perhaps that some of your positions, as mine, are fallible. Having the room to say ‘whoops’ that is a mistake and revise one’s position is a good thing.
Not that the market will fix everything. Not that everything will be perfect. Just that in many cases the market is better than whatever it is you will come up with.
Sometimes the market does, other times it most definitely does not. The idea that we have some ‘wiggle room’ to agree on contentious issues is most surprising.
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