Finding out that many religions are paradoxical is like making the discovery that there happens to be chlorine in salt. Looking at the basis of the christian god it is obvious that not one, but several paradoxes are required to make sense of who or what he/she happens to be.
Like many religious arguments that end with, “I feel it in my heart” or “I believe it to be true” the following needs be added to the lexicon of say nothing evasive responses -“OH, its supernatural…” Watch darkmatter 2525 probe the depths of this topic.




6 comments
November 20, 2011 at 10:58 am
Bleatmop
Love this video. I’m currently dealing with this supernatural argument with someone who believes in reike and is taking intuition classes and this supernatural defence comes up a lot. The statement that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence falls on deaf ears to this crowd because its supernatural, duh!
You know, sometimes it seems like it would be easier if I wasn’t dedicated to being a critical thinker. I could just accept BS and not worry about it. Sadly, once you dedicate yourself to only accepting reality, it’s hard to revert back to believing in fairies and gods.
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November 20, 2011 at 11:47 am
The Arbourist
Calling for rational thought and critical thinking is usually a great way to become unpopular in a wide array of social settings. People want to believe what they want to believe, and gosh darn if does not mesh with reality, so be it.
Not being rational is all good with me, just that when it comes to actions that might negatively affect other people other than the person who believes in the nonsense, then the problems start.
Reike is utter BS from the start, I equate it to attempting to use the Force, as far as plausibility is concerned. Bleat, I’m sure you’ve been there, but if not, you’ll love it when you get accused of being “closed minded” you may have to buy a new irony meter.
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November 20, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Bleatmop
Ah yes, a beautiful video. I am indeed closed minded by the standards of those who believe in the supernatural without any evidence. Indeed, this has led to passive aggressive comments on facebook saying things like “Not eveyone can see the light so just live your own truth day to day”.
Although just reflecting on that gave me the passive aggressive idea to post that video on my facebook page. :)
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November 21, 2011 at 12:09 am
Reneta Scian
Often times placebo effects are all people are seeking, and thus their perception can be skewed by anything that gives the desired placebo effect. Good doesn’t always equal right, and feeling good is by far separation not necessarily associated with truth, or goodness. Often times as with any belief their submission and profession to others is an appeal to the “emotional” rewards of their particular practice. Metaphysics is one such idea in which there isn’t doctrine to convert you, but people certainly do try to appeal to your emotions to make you believe with them. People want you to believe in what they believe because it’s within their need for validation and therein enhances their placebo effect through beliefs. However, placebo effects from belief can be beneficial, and Reiki does have elements which contribute to the belief it is real, beyond feel good effects.
As we all know, human contact, even indirect contact has a profound effect on human health. Humans are one of the few creatures purported to die in the absence of physical contact with other humans. As a person, it is literally possible to die of loneliness, to be so alone that one loses their will to live. Reiki can be a very personal and intimate experience in a profoundly positive way, even though touching does not occur in most forms of it. Reiki does have health benefits by extension, but it’s likely you could get the same benefit out of hugging your loved ones, petting your cat, or kissing your partner as you would from Reiki itself. Reiki can heal because human contact fortifies the human condition with necessary interaction that promotes health, rather than from some strange magic. Furthermore, I’d argue that there are cheaper methods of self care that can be administered without paying someone to wave their hands over you.
The body also produces an EM field, but science is yet to determine whether or not such EM fields have any positive effect. The way I look at it is this. If a placebo helps someone, then let it. I don’t care unless someone expects me to take them at their word with no evidence. I have personally had Reiki done on me, and it feels good but really changes very little. I recommend getting a massage, a shampoo and dry at the salon, back rub, hug, back scratch, et cetera to include Reiki so long as you know what you are buying into with no delusions. All of the above have the same effect on your body, and physical health. Never underestimate the power of a touch from your fellow man, especially when that touch comes from someone with compassion and empathy and the desire to help you. I’d argue that this is an element of attraction to the supernatural, that it’s not the supernatural that is helping them, but the positive affects of the above described human need and of the fulfillment of other needs. Humans shape history, not God as he was never verifiably present to have claim to them.
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November 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm
The Arbourist
However, placebo effects from belief can be beneficial, and Reiki does have elements which contribute to the belief it is real, beyond feel good effects.
Err…no. Placebo effects are just that effects that happen because we think they happen, but the casual agent is *us* not the particular magic we happen to be subscribing to at the time.
Reiki does have health benefits by extension, but it’s likely you could get the same benefit out of hugging your loved ones, petting your cat, or kissing your partner as you would from Reiki itself.
Citation needed for the first part. Human touch and caring gestures are good for health, that has been studied and proven to be true. Saying anything beyond that…”Reiki does have health benefits by extension” … is subject to serious debate.
I see in the conclusion of your post that you’re not really for the mystical-mumbo jumbo, but the first two paragraphs suggest a more accommodationalist stance. Giving any breathing room to pseudo-science only promotes its legitimacy and that can only hurt people in the end.
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November 21, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Reneta Scian
My intention was more to speak to the effect of why people believe in it, which is as important to understand. Then I finished with a comparison for Reiki which framed it under it’s actual effect. In the end, I respect the freedom of others. As a result I don’t take a negativistic stand point against people practicing Reiki (assuming rational understanding exists). However, I can see your point of concern. Like I said, I am only describing one effect of religions, that because of the positive “while only placebo” effect people believe in it because it does have personally measurable positive effects on mood (though they are quite ignorant that there are other ways to achieve that).
Reiki is healthy by extension, because of the nature of the gesture (thus why I make the comparison to hugging). However, I am not giving pseudoscience credibility, only recognizing that someone has the right to it. They should also do so with the full understanding there is more effective ways to boost mood and health. Considering I am more forgiving of Reiki, doesn’t necessarily mean I condone the belief that it is as “good as medicine”. I was pretty clear about that. The comparison allows for people who realize that hugs don’t heal to therefore conclude that neither does Reiki, but I add explaination of it’s “positive phenomenon”.
A person’s desire for attention from another human being is still fulfilled by such action (Reiki) through which health benefit can be inferred without further citation. There is probably a biological mechanism for this, like endorphins released by the brain; therefore, understanding of this has real medical value. While I am against embracing placebos as replacement to “real medicine”, I have no reason to object to people engaging in such activities so long as they understand what it is. It is not “real” medicine, but it is real human interaction. I know people who still practice Reiki with full knowledge that it has only minimal health benefits, and cures nothing.
I mention the emotional effects of beliefs and religions, because (In my opinion) if we can create a culture that replaces the social and neurological effects of religion and belief through science, skeptical inquiry, the pursuit of truth, and community that we can truly make progress as a race. People seek religion for the rewards it provides, for security, and from the fear that ignorance brings. If we can teach ourselves as a culture to not hide behind falsehoods to give ourselves security we can truly ween ourselves off of such mythologies. However, you are mistaken that I am taking a position as an accommodator. My apologies for not making that more clear.
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