It is interesting to watch the mainstream media wrestle with feminism and the backlash from the perceived violations of cultural norms. The Guardian blogged a piece called Why is ‘feminism’ such a tough badge to wear?‘ Then the Blogsphere reacted and some thoughtful writing took place and was captured by Slendermeans and thus appeared in my wordpress reader and is now coming to you here and now.
Echidne of the Snakes has broken down the arguments and responded quite succinctly to each in kind, however I think she does a particularly marvellous job of ferreting out some of the reasons why feminists are often negatively identified in our society. I’ve added italics in the quoted material.
“This is the argument that the piece itself mentions:
As Siobhan Garrigan, who studies English at the University of Lincoln, puts it: “Young people don’t want to identify as feminists because there is this man-hating, frumpy, lesbian image forced on us.”
[…]
[…], those three accusations don’t have anything to do with each other. The first one states that anyone wanting gender equality must hate men. That’s pretty weird. The second one argues, that women who want gender equality cannot be attractive enough to get men in a system where women are second-class citizens. Only unattractive women would want equality!
That’s illogical, too. Finally, one’s sexuality has nothing to do with one’s desire for a gender-equal society. All illogical, says Echidne.
But squint your eyes a bit, and you see the underlying pattern, what all three of these things share: These women do not try to please men. Or that’s the suspicion of anyone using those accusations. Wanting equality means not wanting to please men. Therefore, women who want equality must hate men, be unattractive or prefer women in their sexuality.”
I’m thinking that the not pleasing men angle is the interesting notion brought up by Echidne (as I think more I realize she’s precisely on target – her observations parallel what I’ve read in Beauty and Misogyny by Sheila Jeffreys so far. Oh, go read B&M asap!). What comes into play is the interference feminism brings to the cultural norms of society. Women are supposed to perform to the expectations of men, those are the expectations in our society. Feminists explicitly do not conform to what is expected of them, thus opprobrium results. Hence we get the homosexual, ugly and frumpy characterizations.
Here lies the danger of letting ones opponents define who you are – women are beset by the misogyny implicit in society, like running a race with and just because of your two XX chromosomes you get a extra forty pound backpack to wear for the duration of the race. Who would want to add to their already onerously full backpack by self identifying as a feminist? The price of perofrming femininity is already so high and it is rewarded, such as it is, in the patriarchy for complying. Choosing to go against patriarchal expectations (not to mention the social conditioning of being passive and accepting) is huge; not playing by the rules disqualifies one from the limited benefits afforded to women within the patriarchal system and exposes women to damaging patriarchal animadversion as mentioned in the quoted material.
Knowing and understanding the insidious effects of patriarchy is half the battle; then one can choose the battleground and know when to take to the field. Unfortunately, patriarchy once seen, cannot be unseen. We shouldn’t fault those who have struck their patriarchal bargain, but should know what it entails.
Tough choice to make, but I do agree with Socrates – “The unexamined life is not worth living.”




19 comments
November 29, 2012 at 10:13 am
syrbal
A battle it is. I know women who supported themselves their entire lives and stridently defined themselves as feminists. But they strove desperately to please every man in their lives, enduring numerous humiliations in the process, and if they had children, didn’t make the male children do chores.
For some, taking on the label is the easy part. For myself? I frankly wonder if I am somewhat post-feminist, not because I don’t consider myself feminist (tho’ some women swear I am not, because I am married and no longer work), but because I have become so much more invested in the interplay that allows/enables/demands patriarchal pathways.
It seems to me that it imprisons both men and women….I would really like to know what a less gender oriented HUMAN society would be like.
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November 29, 2012 at 11:21 am
The Arbourist
That is the part that seems to elude so many people. The patriarchal structure of our society hurts both (all) genders, in different ways, but the damage is done.
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November 29, 2012 at 11:53 am
syrbal
::::sighs::::Done, overdone, and re-done. Talk about “chains we choose to live in” (Doris Lessing)
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November 29, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Sunshine Award: A Sense Of Community And Fun With A Little Bit Of Circle Jerking Thrown In. « Project Sara
[…] 9. Dead Wild Roses […]
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November 29, 2012 at 12:05 pm
The Arbourist
@syrbal
Absopositively!
Once I’d like to get behind a mainstream view and enjoy the casual acceptance of people around me. I’m strong proponent of the social democratic state (*furtive glance*, whispers quietly, “socailism”) reproductive rights (and rights in general) for women and an atheist – it would seem like I almost enjoy arguing up hill…
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November 29, 2012 at 12:09 pm
syrbal
Sigh…likewise pinko tinged tho’ it is actually my least favorite color. I’ve always argued ‘uphill’ on damn near everything. It gets tiring though because the fear reaction is so tsunami of stupid style. (Great, now I have a visual of a gangnam tsunami.)
But yes, to sit down comfortably and not dodging thrown tomatoes now and then would be SO nice.
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November 29, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Reneta Scian
A quick note on your post: XX chromosomes outside of reproduction are semantic (being that one cannot at a glance observe them) to the matter of what the patriarchy is, what it does, and how it shackles men who fail to serve it’s purpose, women in general (regardless of chromosomal make-up), and anyone who transgresses the gender system it supports (The Gender Binary). Also, while I like Sheila Jeffreys work when it comes to the complexes around oppression and beauty standards, I make clear that she is a little bit misguided or inaccurate in some regards. There are other feminist works that discuss this topic that don’t contain the degree of transmisogyny that mindset does, and those who share her viewpoint like Julie Bindel, or down the rabbit hole of delusion like Cathy Brennan and Janice Raymond whose bias and misrepresentation defames an entire oppressed class of people.
All one needs to be made a second class citizen via patriarchy is possess sexualities, gender expressions, gender identities, or gendered bodies that differ from it’s black and white hierarchy for women and men, reinforced through the erasure of all else. I am speaking from personal experience in this regard. Reproductive capacity is certainly a factor in the oppression of many women, but not all. Things that some feminist thinkers get wrong (like matters surrounding trans* people) relates very much to the influence of other facets of patriarchal control that are easy to miss, especially if you are cisgender. Jeffreys doesn’t get this aspect, as do some other prominent feminists and self proclaimed Trans* Critical Ideologues. Erasing the lines and constructs of gender (to include beauty standards) does nothing about the bodies of and the fundamental problems facing trans* people.
What is gained if feminism frees women, and oppresses others unduly instead? Many feminist seem to be willing to destroy the gender constructs, but stop short of accepting our genders as valid even if we actively reject the standards which they believe our genders are based on. They dismantle gender constructs, except for the idea that anyone else has any right to declare your gender/sex for you. Willing to go that far, but unwilling to accept the self-determinism that really speaks to the core of what feminism is about… To be free, autonomous agents of ones own body and sexuality. Transition is not without autonomy, something still quite restricted under patriarchy. Trans* issues, are feminist issues.
There is no single trait that can be used to faithfully categorize all people into their appropriate gender, therefore that entire system must be destroyed as well and replaced with a system that more accurately reflects reality thereby stopping the marginalization of other gender/sexual minorities. Trans women far more so than any other group, are mischaracterized and demonized. Because not only do we refuse to be a “nice little patriarchates” but we became second class willingly and then some even refused to accept their “roles therein”. I didn’t just refuse to please men, I refused to be one or to become their play thing in doing so. I do to my body what I do for my benefit alone, with no esthetic motivation. And with that come more layers of derision targeted at those like me, all bearing the same logo, the same mindset, but slightly different words. However, I am happy to say, feminism is also becoming wise of the reality that women like me live, and why some older feminist concepts also in need of revision.
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November 30, 2012 at 4:34 am
slendermeans
I am not a fan of Jeffreys at all. I find her transphobia and cissexism appalling. Is much of that apparent in B +M?
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November 30, 2012 at 11:01 am
The Arbourist
@slendermeans
As of chapter 2, not yet. It sounds like I’m rushing toward a Sam Harris-esque revelation in which the author manages to say some good things, but is really an asshat. I’ll be wary as I continue.
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November 30, 2012 at 11:47 am
The Arbourist
@slendermeans
Can you help me short cut through some of the leg work? I read Jeffreys’s article Transgender Activism :A Lesbian Feminist Perspective. Most of my reading so far seems to be from the historical middle times of feminist theory.
Looking at Jeffreys article, could you grab a quote and then provide direction in published research that opposes what she says? It’s nice to have a starting point in ones reading.
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November 30, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Reneta Scian
Well, I clicked that link Arbourist, and I think the article starts off bad to begin with. Just within the abstract. It would likely be triggering just for someone like myself to attempt to read the whole thing. Trans critical loosely translates to, “I’m Cisgender, and my gender works for me. However, your gender will never be valid because it scares me, so I am going to make up an excuse or dissertation about how it’s wrong and against nature for you to transition”. She, as some other really transphobic feminist do, sees transgender surgery as a mutilation of the body, rather than actually looking at the evidence… And that evidence is that by and large gender transition is helpful, and life altering in a positive way. People who would rather die otherwise can be given a new life, and become happy, functionally, human beings. Also speaking from experience here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
http://www.religioustolerance.org/transsexu23.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment
Might I add, that Dr. Keith Ablow, Fox News’ medical contributor also shares a similar viewpoint to Jeffreys on transgender surgery, and refuses to see gender reassignment as anything other than mutilation and consistently and constantly misgenders trans* people. Fox News and it’s contributors aren’t known for being intellectually honest. Also, it’s important to add, that the major psychology and psychiatric associations in the US and others around the world recognize GID as being validly treated with gender transition, and consider reparative therapy to be unethical and/or potentially hazards to one’s mental health.
http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx
http://home.surewest.net/drmilazzo/francie/therapy.html
Might I add, that the same people who believe you can change a persons gender identity through therapy are also part of the religious fundamentalist groups supporting Reparative Therapy. They also tried barbaric by even modern standards other forms of treatment to stop people from being transgender, all of which failed in the same way they did when done on homosexuals. They haven’t found anything that was remotely helpful in treating GID outside of gender transition. Oh, and that Wiki link contains links to studies that show biological links to brain structure, other studies indicating that Jeffreys is wrong to conclude such, and stuff about success and regret rates.
Essentially what I am getting at is that she is contradicted by a lot of evidence, and positions of professionals who specialize in our care, in addition to the testimony and stories of trans people like myself. Julia Serrano, another lesbian, trans feminist talks about this at length, so her works are very good for this as well. Trans feminists constantly bash heads over this issue with Trans Critical/Exclusionary Radical feminists rather regularly. The problem is though, is that one has evidence backing it, and the other just rampant transphobia.
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December 1, 2012 at 6:51 am
bleatmop
I might add that the feminist label is only a difficult badge to wear if you are actually a feminist. I don’t forget how loud and proud Sarah Palin was when she wore that badge, and how excited the media were to finally meet a feminist that suited their fancy. She was almost referred to as a feminist more than a vice-presidential candidate.
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December 1, 2012 at 8:05 am
The Arbourist
I’m thinking that if you’re getting widespread media acceptance for being a feminist, you’re doing it wrong.
Indeed.
Nice to hear from you again Bleat, I trust things are going well? :)
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December 1, 2012 at 8:52 am
The Arbourist
@Reneta November 29, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Other than the fact that they denote a female, biologically speaking. Now in the context of the post I did mean it as short hand for females in general and I can see why you commented on this.
The radfem/trans debate is multifaceted and laden with many intersectionalities that I have not yet explored. In other words, I’m still quite ignorant to much of the history/debate/positions that are out there, thus while forming my position I might say some stupid shite, please bear with me.
I appreciate your input on Jeffreys and will read with caution.
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December 1, 2012 at 9:55 am
The Arbourist
@Reneta November 30, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Poisoning the Well does not make your arguments stronger. If Fox News had a factually correct segment (unlikely) then it would be okay be me as well.
Jeffreys, as I recall, does not mention reparative therapy in the article.
I would be careful when arguing this point considering the early discussion of semantics about chromosomal identities. Saying we shouldn’t use biological determinants in one sense and then using them (oh, a “male brain” in a female body) in another context is inconsistent.
The evidence provided is general in nature, helpful but not as illuminating as I had hoped for. Consider –
“Transsexualism opposes feminism by maintaining and reinforcing false and constructed notions of correct femininity and masculinity.”
“In a period in which feminism has had some success in questioning the rigidity of gender roles a new model was required if transsexualism was not to look hopelessly retrogressive”
“From a feminist perspective it is questionable whether transgenderists
really challenge gender stereotypes. Their whole lives and identities, usually to the extent of very serious self-mutilation, have been formed around a belief in gender. It is women and men who espouse feminist understandings and reject gender entirely who are really challenging “gender.”
From pg 56 – 58 of the text.
It would be interesting to hear your point of view on these quotes.
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December 1, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Reneta Scian
My reasoning why gender identity is not actually “brain sex”, is that gender identity is independent of sex and not related to memory, spacial skills, or brain function per say. Meaning, structurally speaking, the brains of women/men are different in areas that have little affect or purpose outside of the body/identity relationship. It is as simple as your body knowing you should have 5 fingers on each hand, and 5 toes on each foot (relation to phantom limb syndrome). It is those small sections of the brain that code a persons internal sense of form, the mismatch of which produces dysphoria. Hormones define the regions of the brain that determine gender identity, and sexual orientation independent of sex chromosomes. Chromosomes function as code for developing reproductive capacity (toggling genes that develop functional gonads), but do not actually transform the body directly.
XX bares less significance when androgens can reverse that producing someone phenotypically male, who identifies as a gynephilic man instead, and vise versa for XY in the absence of the androgenic affect. Most of the time the biological development of males and females functions properly, and produces males and females as XY and XX respectively. The functions of sex chromosomes are dependent on other systems and genes which are susceptible to endogenous and exogenous interference. I do not refer to it as brain sex as the idea of fundamental functional differences between male and female brains is contradicted by evidence from many fields. While gender differences in adult brains exist, it was gender based rearing and differential treatment of boys and girls produced that divergence over time, and gender identity exist outside of that. Sufficient knowledge of this didn’t exist when the feminist ideas refuted here were formed. From that idea, where would gender identity then fall?
About Sheila Jeffreys’ statements:
“Transsexualism opposes feminism by maintaining and reinforcing false and constructed notions of correct femininity and masculinity.”
Being trans* does not enforce this though we are susceptible to internalization of gender norms. The fact that there are butch trans women and femme trans men, and many other variations contradicts this notion. Gender identity, and gender expression are separate matters. Her representation of transsexuality is inaccurate, and is based on generalizations and stereotypes.
“In a period in which feminism has had some success in questioning the rigidity of gender roles a new model was required if transsexualism was not to look hopelessly retrogressive”
The trans* community has become more progressive on this matter as the system of how people seek transition begins to be less “gender normative gate-keeping”. Considering the nature in which trans* people are social pariahs, the social pressure are amplified as a result. The internalization of cultural roles and expectations led to what trans feminists refer to as Transfundamentalism. That ideology is a “hopelessly regressive” element of this community, defined by a belief that the only way to be accepted socially is to reinforce cultural gender norms, and shun all trans people who can’t meet their expectations.
“From a feminist perspective it is questionable whether transgenderists
really challenge gender stereotypes. Their whole lives and identities, usually to the extent of very serious self-mutilation, have been formed around a belief in gender. It is women and men who espouse feminist understandings and reject gender entirely who are really challenging “gender.”
Gender identity is not sensitively depended on societal factors and everyone experiences that relationship between one’s sense of self and their gendered body. Gender dysphoria still exists outside of the means by which to express it. I’d say it’s inaccurate to define transition as self-mutilation, unless you count all body modification for the sake of bodily integrity, and psychological well being as “self-mutilation” (Artificial Limbs, Limb Reconstruction, Et Cetera). Also, loss of a body part also isn’t prerequisite to be a matter of bodily integrity, just the absence of an expected feature will suffice. Helping people attain a state of full body integrity is psychologically beneficial, a state which trans* people don’t experience prior to achieving their needed level of transition. Physical transition, will almost almost always require social transition as a result. Her quote should read “From a Cisgender Feminist perspective”. In the absence of knowledge of the relationship trans* persons share with their bodies it is easy to make that mistake and create faulty assumptions. It is difficult for a cisgender person to understand the relationship of gender identity in a trans* person unless they also understand their own relationship accordingly.
Hopefully that makes more sense on this matter, and I’ll gladly elaborate on the topics there in and provide supplemental information in that regards. Sorry that my comments always end up being so long, but hopefully that isn’t a detractor.
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January 26, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Historical Notions – Women’s Rights to Choose. « Dead Wild Roses
[…] is not for learning about 101 level feminism. Today is calling down from pulpit the rage and the anger against the systematic oppression of […]
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September 17, 2013 at 3:13 pm
man
You recomend Sheila Jeffries and you are wondering why feminists are accused of hating men? Sheila Jeffries used to post at radfemhub.com where feminists discussed how to either kill of all men or reduce the male poppulation to only 10%, castrate most men, use their skin for glue, killing baby boys etc.
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September 17, 2013 at 8:20 pm
The Arbourist
@Man
Some of what she writes is accurate and is valuable information. After finishing Beauty and Misogyny I would have agree with Slendermeans that the transphobia does not help her arguments.
One of the ideas in the article is that women cannot let men define the debate, as they will do so in a light that is favourable to them. Thus, if you’d like to think that all feminists hate men, that would be your prerogative.
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