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Seems obvious, no? Watch a well put together seven minute essay on why we need to change, and the sooner the better.
Nothing like being in the sweet spot for the necessity of complex landing procedures.
Post Modernism keeps coming up at the root of many debates on contentious issues. Gender identity politics one of the area where the influence of post-modernism can be seen. This quote from Tildeb on Violetwisp’s blog is part of his critique of a segment of the left side of the political spectrum what Tildeb calls the Regressive left. The claim is as follows:
“My claim is that there is a strong and growing element in the Left that is regressive, that operates by actions and sentiments that a anti-liberal in principle and demonstrate actions that are anti-Enlightenment in value… not least of which is saying that they do so on behalf of liberal principles and Enlightenment values but then actually committing the opposite. Furthermore, I claim the tactics used are fascist, that bullying and intimidation and violence and disruption and demonization are gaining wider and broader social acceptance… especially by people who should know better. In addition, from these sideline observers who should know better than appease and apologize for these hypocritical illiberals comes a kind of Fifth Column, people who go along, who do not soundly condemn, who rationalize excuses on behalf of others, who partake in the illusion of supporting ‘correctness’ by incorrect means and use a form of apologetics for Really Bad Ideas championed by the more militant advocates who presume they are defending victimized groups by these fascist methods.”
Many women are experiencing this phenomena vis-a-vis liberal feminism allied with trans-activism. Females are routinely branded by the regressive left as TERFs for expressing a need for female only spaces, expressing their sexual preferences and defending the necessary boundaries they set in society in order for them to be safe. The function of the term “terf” (trans exclusionary radical feminist) is to silence, shame, and coerce women into accepting men into their spaces and their feminism. It has been a fairly successful campaign, but women are slowly seeing the downsides of a version of feminism that centres around the needs of males, having their peak trans moments and rejecting liberal feminism because essentially, it isn’t about women and their struggle for emancipation from the patriarchal structures of society.
Tildeb isn’t directly addressing feminist concerns, but this next portion of his comment illustrates exactly the issue with the regressive left’s take on reality and how it affects their argumentation.
“The point I keep raising is about the use of anti-liberal methods done in the name of liberal principles and then excused by those claiming to support liberal principles. Also, I keep raising the point but face significant reticence. from those I accuse of hypocrisy, of using a double standard, of going along with a very Post Modern framework and language not just about groups and power but this idea that everyone owns their own facts, their own truths, that any action illiberal intolerant action undertaken in defense of the victimized groups is somehow justified as well as exempt from legitimate criticism.”
Everyone can’t have their own set of facts and truths and have the naive expectation that others will go along with them. Your deeply subjective personal thoughts and feelings are precisely that – *your* thoughts and feelings; expecting others to fall in line with your subjective whims is not only unreasonable, it is not how the world works. Interfacing with society involves a give and take and mutual understanding of how the world works. We teach children that their own desires and perspectives must be tempered with input from reality – they cannot have all the things, nor do things work precisely the way children think they should. As children mature their outlook on the world becomes more nuanced and the interaction between their personal selves and the world begins to even out and the interplay between individual and society establishes itself into a generally beneficial mutual relationship.
The right to swing ones arms around is limited by the presence of others who may not want to be hit with said arms. In other words feel free to exercise your freedom as long as you’re not infringing on the rights of others. The same can be said of your subjective thoughts and feelings on gender and how your present yourself to the world. By all means, identify however you wish. That is your right, and I fully endorse an individuals right to do so.
But, your self-identification ends with you. There should be no expectation that others have to take your subjective self-declared identity at face value. So, if you happen to be male and identify as a woman fine. But the expectation that others *must* treat you as a woman goes against the conception of rights we have in a liberal society. Others may have different views on gender and identity and they have the exact same rights as the person who happens to be a male identifying as woman.
The problem is that people who do not go along with the self-identification of others are unjustly maligned, harassed, and their views marginalized by the current liberal feminists/transactivist movement. People who believe that the social construction of gender is harmful and should be abolished have their views routinely mislabelled -phobic or bigoted when really they are just stating their opinion (of course, being backed by fact and observable reality is nice too).
So, let’s try and further the bounds of the debate and see where it takes us.
A big thank you Tildeb for clearly putting into words some of key points of the post modern gender identity debate and the surrounding controversy.
Greetings nature lovers, today we get to observe in the wild an all to common animal – the delusional oppressed male. Deep in the basement man-cave, writing furious man-words about how terrible men have it, and why women bitches have it so darn good. I think dissertations like the one about to follow are reason enough to be wary of the hermetic bubbles that can form in internet land, where critical thought is extinguished and replaced by the toxic group-think that masquerades as reasonable thought.
Our featured whinger extraordinaire is Red Shambhala and his very… umm… nuanced view of feminism and the female role in society.
““I’m a feminist who loves rough sex“, “I’m a queer little“, “How I reconciled feminism with my first step into the dark side of BDSM”, “Why I’m Both Sexually Submissive AND A Feminist” – put feminism and BDSM into a search engine and you will quickly be greeted by numerous articles about stronk feminist womyn who have stopped worrying and loved to learn the whip.”
Fascinating premise. BDSM, or the replication of male violence and female submission for fun?!? isn’t a particularly feminist act, nor like much of the rest of liberal feminism, worth examining past the idea that any ideological stance that centres men and their feelings can not rightly be called feminist. So Red Shitolya is already off to a bad start.
“Meanwhile, Return of Kings et al. are more than eager to similarly praise BDSM as something women “secretly” want (but just do not want to admit) and men should therefore do
towithfor them.”
Unsurprising, as BDSM reinforces patriarchal ideals, why wouldn’t misogynists be all over such propositions?
“What these seemingly disparate groups have in common is that they are primarily concerned about what women want.”
Doubtful. RoK and liberal feminists may both support the current status quo, but exhibit markedly different levels of clueless foolishness that detract from the work of feminism proper (e.g. the emancipation of females from the strictures of patriarchy).
“Obviously, liberals and conservatives, left-wingers and right-wingers cannot exactly agree on what precisely it is the fair sex allegedly wants, but they do share the same gynocentric framework, namely in posing the question, “What do women want?”, and then attempting to answer said question.”
To be treated as fully human in society is a great place to start. And what exactly the fuck is a gynocentric framework. Referring to a topic isn’t “centric” anything. Biologists talking about their work are not being bio-centric. Of the many tells Male Rights Activists give, this is one of the most obvious – the inversion of the power structure in society. Somehow females, the class that holds less power, is taken less seriously, and is abused more in society has all the power and is always up to “no good” and wants to enslave all men to their dastardly agenda. By “no good” I mean opposing the current patriarchal status quo of course. But the very notion that dudes exist in a society that they made and directly benefits them in a myriad of ways is quite past the event horizon of most MRA’s; as appreciating tangible facts is quite outside their wheelhouse.
“Antifeminism, however, should not be about giving a different answer to the frustrated query “What do women want?” but, rather, about asking alternative questions: “What do men actually want? And why the hell do we only care about what women want?”“
What we have today in society is what men want, you feckless douche nozzle. Losing your place privileged place in society and actually have to treat everyone with respect is not the shit-your-pants apocalyptic nightmare you envision. Not even close.
“The current omnipresence of gynocentric thought, however, should not leave one with the impression that focusing exclusively on the desires of females has always been unchallenged.”
The level of unhinged quickly goes past 11. Back here in reality, the world is still dominated by male thought, male writers, captains of industry, academia, art, and literature. We are drowning in the dudeish perspective and it fucking sucks. The half of the world that isn’t represented by said male view needs to see itself portrayed in literature, culture, and business. The few inroads into male dominated fields represent a clear and present danger to MRA’s like the Red Shitola, and as always their fears are based on the dark nightmare fuel that is regurgitated through the manosphere.
“There are both secular as well as religious alternatives to subordinating everything to the vapid whims and wills of women. Christianity, for instance, teaches that “man is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.” (1 Corinthians 11:7). “
This book that says its a sin to wear clothing of mixed fibres is now an authority on how a modern society should work. *shaking head*
“Likewise, the book of Genesis tells us that Satan, the great deceiver who attempts to leads humanity astray, tempted Eve by talking her into believing that she could be like God. Meanwhile, Adam was similarly tempted and convinced that he should follow the proud female’s advice.”
And the burning bush is full of wisdom of the ages. Citing the bible to back your claims is a risible practice at best, and to be honest boring as heck.
“Even from a non-Christian perspective one has to admit that both men and women are indeed often tempted to put women in the place that is traditionally reserved for the only God in Abrahamic religions.”
Our heroic dude-bro, cites two examples the exact opposite of what he states in the following paragraph. Consistency, what the fuck is it?
“Consider, for instance, how many pagan religions worship motherhood goddesses and how the evil US Empire is able to justify its imperialist wars by claiming that they only murder in order to “liberate” women.”
What are you talking about, you’re not making any sense. Does anyone else here think that our beloved Red Shitola is a avid follower of Alex Jones? He’s making about that level of sense …
“Be that as it may, according to the holy texts of Christianity, the punishment for sin was not only death but also that the women’s desire is now “contrary to her husband.” Before the fall, the female gladly fulfilled her roles as the submissive helper she was created for by the Christian’s God – after the fall, she is now boisterous and unsubmissive, her desire is now “contrary” to her husband. Hence, a female refusing to submit is both sin and the result of sin.”
When people ask about how religion reinforces patriarchal notions and the patriarchal status quo I should just reference this Joker and his man-boner for the good ole days where you could just straight up kill disobedient women. The notion that we need to combat this fierce imbalance the world over rather than propagate it, must seem like some fanciful feminist dream conspiracy. Of course, the nearer one comes to reality, the more out of touch it seems to delusional dudes such as Red Shitola.
“This is not to say that I support Christianity or believe the teachings of Jesus to have the power to repair Western society, but there might be an occasional diamond to pluck from the dunghill of Abrahamic religions. “
Oh hey, all that stuff I said about religion and stuff, I don’t actually believe it anything. But if a credulous source happens to fit my world-veiw, I’ll endorse it with aplomb. Because fuck critical thinking and analysis, they too must be part of gynocentric thought frameworks…
“If memory serves, it was Fyodor Shcherbatskoy (1866-1942), the great Russian Indologist largely responsible for laying the foundations in the Western world for the scholarly study of Buddhism, who once replied that he did not approve of his contemporaries’ literal attack on the Christian churches, but, rather, considered Torah, Bible, Talmud and Qur’an to be “cultural treasure chambers.” So, maybe the saints and sages of the past do have a thing or two to teach us about women.”
You know how I just said that religion was crap? Just after saying it wasn’t crap to begin with? Yes, well religion once again isn’t crap. I think the feminist overlords broke into this guys computer and changed the dictionary meanings of ‘convoluted’ and ‘nuanced’ because you can feel the all the (erroneous) mental work that has gone into this tepid series of contradictory paragraphs. It’s like he’s occasionally seen good writing but then somehow mistook his rubegoldberg-esque pap for that good writing and declared it a masterpiece. Another solid victory for Dunning-Kruger.
“To return to the main point, BDSM is essentially a faux-surrogate for actual dominance and actual submission. Instead of a sweet, warm and submissive helper whose cheeks blush upon receiving a playful slap on her bum, men now have to deal with ugly, boisterous feminists who want their boyfriends to spit in their faces, whip and abuse them, and simulate rape like conditions.“
Wait, what? You are blaming women for the pornified violent BDSM culture? Of course you are, as women are always to blame for the shitty things men do and say.
“For whatever reason, internet virgins sometimes seem to believe that women being into BDSM is a sign of femininity, but the opposite is true.”
How do you even get here from what you’ve said? This is masterclass in pulling random shit of ones ass and calmly stating it as ‘fact’.
“The more feminist a female is, the more pain and humiliation she needs in order to still feel like a woman in the bedroom. Likewise, the more feminine a woman is, the less she wants you to hurt and to humiliate her.”
What? Feminism takes a dim view of the abusive nature of BDSM and realizes the replication of the patriarchal status quo. This is the notion on display that there is ‘one true nature’ for the women-folk and that those haughty outliers (who dare speak against patriarchy) somehow need to be broken down to enjoy the true awesomeness of being part of the oppressed, submissive, servile class. Fucking disgusting this pornified dudes fantasies on display for the world to read.
“To sum up, the faux “dominance” of consensual sadomasochism is outright pathetic. “
Because we need the real life version because that somehow is ‘better’ for all involved.
So. Much. Misogyny.
“This is not to say that BDSM and fetishes are generally sick, “degenerate”, sinful, wrong and yada yada yada. Men should be aware, though, that women want to reduce men to the status of dogs; dogs that look dark and dangerous and threatening when they bark, and are yet on the leash of the female, who only has to snap her fingers once to make him roleplay as a “master” in the bedroom, and then snap her fingers twice in order to transform him back into her little beta boi. Men deserve better than that. “
Taking a position must be a hard thing to do in the manosphere, because the level of contradiction is off the scale.
You tepid underwear stain of a human being; men are not oppressed in society. Understand that men design, maintain, and propagate this system we live in for their benefit, why would they want to maintain the status-quo if it wasn’t good for them.
Your connection with reality is tenuous at best. Please stop writing and wasting precious electrons your self-abrogating tortured prose. The delusional MRA funhouse framework you exist in is an affront to rationality and clear thinking. In short, you are making the world a worse place to be in and you don’t even realize it.
And that friends is the truly scary part.
bleatmop
Mystro
The Arbourist
Dead Wild Roses 
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