The Internet is full of stupid. Heck, I contribute the odd time as well, but just when you think it cannot get any worse cue the Peddlers of Woo for that next rung lower on the Ladder of Fail. People who believe that the chain of causality is wrong in the following example:
You are exposed to a microorganism—>you get sick….
They actually argue for the opposite.
You get sick—>and from your sickness comes the microorganism.
Concordance does a masterful job of describing exactly how deep this particular rabbit hole of crazy goes.





8 comments
August 11, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Vern R. Kaine
To go entirely against science and the germ theory is crazy. To any of these pure denialists I would suggest that they ask their surgeon and his staff NOT to scrub down before operating on them, and to use dirty instruments as well. (Perhaps a bad example, since extreme deniers would never agree to surgery!)
Regardless, the data that sanitized environments kills these germs and reduces the chance of infectious disease being transmitted is well-proven FACT. People would be stupid to ignore this.
I think people can be stupid going the other way too, though. Our culture of “I can eat and live like crap if I can just take this pill” thinking, or that we just accept every bit of nutritional advice given to us as truth without challenging it with our own “common” sense makes us just as stupid and ignorant, in my opinion.
I believe the Germ Theory to be only half of the equation. I believe also that we must have a healthy internal terrain so that the germs that enter our system can either not take hold, or be dealt with properly, just as it happens in nature.
If Pasteur’s Theory was 100% accurate, then EVERYONE would get sick from ingesting other people’s snot, phlegm, scabs, blood, etc. and it’s been proven that that doesn’t happen. Here’s one example that I think proves this, and also stressed the importance of a good diet: (Goldberger’s “Filth Parties” – http://history.nih.gov/exhibits/goldberger/docs/pellegra_5.htm.) Notice the fight he had against people who insisted that Pellagra was a germ and not a dietary disorder, and the extreme lengths he went to in order to prove otherwise (gross!)
“Concordance” makes some points that I agree with, but his cynicism is obvious and I wouldn’t give him any more credibility than someone just as cynical against allopathic medicine since they’re both based on ignorance and fear. To me, allopathic and naturopathic medicine should work together and make proper diet more a part of mainstream. The GP’s I know admit they know little about nutrition.
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August 11, 2010 at 2:45 pm
The Intransigent One
At least the GPs admit it. And then if there’s a nutritional issue, send you to a nutritionist – a person who is trained on the best science available in nutrition.
Meanwhile, the naturopaths who claim to know so much (while I’m sure some do have some real, scientifically-validated nutritional knowledge, my experience is that most) mainly try to sell you supplements of dubious empirical value, or else convince you you’re allergic to half the things you normally eat. Often both. And the advice they give you that’s sound, you could probably have gotten from your grandma. This is mostly my experience, but if you want research plus many collected experiences, please see http://www.naturowatch.org/
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August 11, 2010 at 3:00 pm
Vern R. Kaine
“At least the GP’s admit it.”
True! I check that site out regularly. I believe there are some really good naturopaths out there, but unfortunately anyone right now can pretty much call themselves one.
What I like about science is that it attempts to wade through the crap to a kernel of knowledge. What frustrates me about the field of naturopathy is that it often takes a kernel of knowledge and surrounds it with crap, especially where Western “commercialization” is concerned.
I’ve had my own experience with naturopathic “medicine” (as in, using food to prevent illness/speed recovery rather than trusting pharmacology) and have been very pleased with the results. I was lucky, though – I was referred through trusted friends directly to professionals rather than trying to hit the yellow pages or the Internet for advice.
Here’s an interesting TED talk I watched recently on eating to “starve” cancer by William Li, which I think shows how the two fields can work in concert.
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August 11, 2010 at 3:28 pm
The Intransigent One
I think you were more lucky that your condition was self-limiting.
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August 11, 2010 at 3:41 pm
The Arbourist
To me, allopathic and naturopathic medicine should work together and make proper diet more a part of mainstream.
Err…done and done. :)
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August 12, 2010 at 7:53 am
Vern R. Kaine
“Lucky”? You mean, something happened to me that science has no explanation for? Wow! :)
No, it wasn’t luck, and considering that you have no knowledge of what condition I was referring to or what steps I took (which by default would lean things more to the “it wasn’t luck” side), at best you’re hazarding a guess, which happen to be wrong.
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August 12, 2010 at 8:38 am
Vern R. Kaine
I WISH it was done. :)
Look, here’s my position on this whole thing: If you watch the Li/TED video, it shows that there’s much more we could be paying attention to in regards to the effectiveness of a “good” diet, yet you can check any Borders/Chapters/Amazon on the subject and see that there’s much debate over what a “good” diet actually is. Look at how much the Canada and US Food Guides have changed since their inceptions, for one, and then look into WHY they’ve changed for another.
I and one of my siblings had bad gastrointestinal problems. Three doctors each (including a dietician), and all they could recommend were pills that managed the symptoms and didn’t seem to address the underlying cause.
The naturopath I went to made suggestions right away in regards to adjusting my diet. My sister went to a different one and got similar advice. We’ve both had zero problems since then. Going back to the doctors, they both had theories as to why that might work, but when I asked if they had these theories when I was in there asking for recommendations, they said no.
I’m sure if I went through a battery of tests they could tell me scientifically why what I did worked, but thankfully I didn’t have to go through all that just so they could learn what I already knew worked.
Now, I also had a relative with similar issues who went and saw a “naturopath” and ended up coming home with over $1,300 in products – right down to a $20 tube of toothpaste! She not only got bad advice but was completely ripped off, with no recourse. This guy should have been shut down by the cops, but unfortunately all he got was a bad BBB remark. This is where I’m partially in agreement with you all.
But there’s guys like this Li guy who are doing a good thing – seeking more knowledge about how foods can help heal which is something that traditional medicine has, for the most part, ignored.
Even though they probably can’t explain it in the scientific way the speaker and his colleagues can, what he talks about is something that good naturopaths have been saying for over a decade.
If you all can’t acknowledge that what he’s speaking of has some merit, then with all due respect, I think you’re being just as ignorant as those who completely swear off allopathic medicine. For as much as you all hate corporations as you do, I find it surprising that you’ll so easily get behind the corporate giants in pharma and automatically dismiss that there might be, in some cases, foods that do just as good a job as their drugs do for much less cost. It seems dogmatic.
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August 19, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Anti-Vax Lunacy – Bullshit: Penn & Teller « Dead Wild Roses
[…] | by The Arbourist I like it when people on TV are right. I’ve already talked about Germ Theory Denial in a previous post, more of the here, but P&T do a great job on destructing and deconstructing […]
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