I love the Bible. I love christians who don’t actually take the time to read this heinous turd of bronze-age mendacity. I extra-love christians who claim that there can be no morality without god. Basing your morality on the dubious actions and pronouncements of a god-head who is self contradictory and malicious seems to be a very bad idea. Discern4, a youtube author takes a look at one of the most problematic issues of the bible; slavery.
God - Waffler on Slavery
You see, my christian friends, apologists, and the religiously deluded in general if god were actually there and writing down good moral code for his “children” to follow one would expect His wisdom to contain something like this:
“Slavery is an abomination”
The problem is that you don’t actually see anything like this going on in either the old or new testaments. So saying that the bible is a good place to start for objective morality,as long as you over look slavery seems a little far fetched (rape and genocide are also notably absent, you would think our omniscient creator would have a little foresight and mention these little transgressions). My arguments aside, watch as our holy creator waffles about slavery being both bad and good…and then bad…and then….
Oh, and Happy New Year – May your thinking be less delusion and religiously addled in this fine new year. :)
*update* – Watch christian goodwill in action. I couldn’t resist…apologies for the 3 video post.
bleatmop
Mystro
The Arbourist
Dead Wild Roses 
32 comments
January 1, 2012 at 7:31 pm
Bleatmop
I wouldn’t exactly say that the bible is absent when it comes to commenting on rape or genocide. I’m quite certain that it outright endorses them. Other than that, I would say you are spot on.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 8:41 am
The Unrepublican
Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind. And love your neighbor as yourself.
Therein is the fulfillment of the law and prophets.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 8:43 am
The Unrepublican
Rape and genocide?
No. Does not endorse them.
It is easy to flap your gums.
“The Constitution flat out has 33,004 pages a mile long.”
“Obama is flat out ten feet tall.”
The Empire State Building is flat out in New Jersey.”
How about some data to back up that conjecture, peon.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 8:47 am
The Unrepublican
And don’t start calling me a hypocrite for being a asshole.
I am not a christian. I am just calling it like I see it. Totally and completely neutral.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 8:48 am
The Unrepublican
*an*
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 11:31 am
The Arbourist
U:Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
And then…
U: I am just calling it like I see it. Totally and completely neutral.
One could point to a few small inconsistencies in what you have said, as far as urging in one post to love god and then denying christianity in the second is concerned.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 2:12 pm
The Unrepublican
I am a deist. I don’t believe in miracles. I believe in the natural law. I don’t believe in prayer. God is going to do His will, regardless, so why pray? I don’t believe God plays an active role in the world, today. I believe God pretty much just stays back, and allows people to be people.
I don’t believe in religion. I find it corrupt and counter-productive, and when combined with politics/state, downright dangerous.
I don’t read the Bible for spiritual growth. Although, I have read it for wisdom.
I don’t have a vested interest in this discussion one way or another, as what will happen will happen regardless of what atheists, or christians for that matter, say. I am not a religious person.
I fight fire with fire. Just because I quote a particular scripture in an attempt to refute a charge, a charge made against the scripture itself and done in behalf of those who adhere to the scripture, doesn’t necessarily mean I am in cahoots, or claim to adhere to the scripture. No, I can assure you that if I was a christian (the definition and requirements of which are clearly made known in the book you so brazenly bash) the last thing I would do is deny my faith. In truth, I spend quite a bit of time admonishing christians for their unfair attacks on atheists, as well as non-believers like myself. I use the word admonish, because I am nowhere near as hard on them as I am on you. And there’s a reason for that…
You are just plain nasty. You spend time quoting irrelevant scriptures that aren’t and haven’t been practiced by christians for thousands of years. You willingly and blatantly ignore the clear discrepancy between the Old Testament and the modern day church, despite the fact the doctrine of the church clearly and irrevocably renders the former moot; yet you continually and unfairly use anything and everything against them, making no allowances for other viewpoints, doctrines, interpretations, practices, or natures contrary to the grossly exaggerated and vile agitprop you thrust into the midst of your small, but equally ravenous audience.
I cannot help but come away with one clear perception:
To you and your ilk, this is a war. This is a war that you must win at any cost. There is no moral guide to which one like you should ascribe to, as the end justifies the means, and you do that which is right in your own eyes. A moral turpitude that is not progressive, but rather regressive, harmful, and selfish, regardless of intent.
That is why I rebuke you. That is why I despise your very nature.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 2:21 pm
The Unrepublican
The “Love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, and mind. And love your neighbor as yourself.” scripture I borrowed from the Bible was not done as an “urging” to others, but rather used as a defense to the charges that the central theme of Christianity is somehow negative.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 2:38 pm
The Unrepublican
You know, the sad part of it is, you are really an extremely intelligent and well spoken person. Not only that, but you and I probably have more in common then you would ever dare to think. I fight for the same thing you fight for. I believe, for the most part, the same things you believe. I see you arguing certain points, the majority of which I completely agree with. The core values of your political philosophy, from what I have gathered, are pretty much on par with mine.
I’m a socialist. I believe in a welfare state. I believe in helping the poor. I believe in world peace. I believe in the destruction of racial awareness, the destruction of nationalism, and the triumph of the human spirit. I support a woman’s right to choose, I support gay marriage, I support equality over liberty.
But above all, I support humility. Integrity. Honesty. Compromise. Commitment. Peace, and Love.
I believe in striving to do good, not as we see it, but as it affects all people. Democracy is not about enforcing the will of the majority, but rather, protecting the rights of the minority.
That includes christians.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 2:39 pm
bleatmop
“How about some data to back up that conjecture, peon.”
I would back this statement up to just about anyone but you, shithead. You are a worthless piece of trash that is not worthy of my time to debate with. Go back to being a troll wherever you have been these past months, presumably under a bridge somewhere.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 5:31 pm
The Unrepublican
Doesn’t much matter.
You have no say, peon.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 5:36 pm
The Unrepublican
“You know, the sad part of it is, you are really an extremely intelligent and well spoken person.”
Sadly, I cannot say the same about Bleatmop.
He needs to keep his cool. That is the sign of a weak mind. Losing one’s cool.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 9:14 pm
The Arbourist
I don’t read the Bible for spiritual growth. Although, I have read it for wisdom.
Errr…right.
You are just plain nasty.
Why thank you. Although nasty is rather a subjective term.
You spend time quoting irrelevant scriptures that aren’t and haven’t been practiced by christians for thousands of years.
Yes, that is because through secular democracy and rules we do not tolerate much of the vile crapitude of what the bible commands.
discrepancy between the Old Testament and the modern day church,
When christian leaders start denouncing the horrors of the old testament rather than just glossing it over, then we might be able to have this conversation. But getting people to admit that parts of their magic book is utter BS is a difficult task.
vile agitprop you thrust into the midst of your small, but equally ravenous audience.
Oh, you mean the people who do not actively believe in mythology and care about rational thought, why yes I do attempt to cater to them and their preferences.
To you and your ilk, this is a war. This is a war that you must win at any cost.
You mean seeing rationality and critical thinking overcoming delusional religious thought, of course I do.
There is no moral guide to which one like you should ascribe to, as the end justifies the means, and you do that which is right in your own eyes.
Making a few assumptions as to what morality is and how I follow it. Although it seems a good guide though whenever you come around and start posting/trolling a particular post, that this is a good direction to follow because the message is hitting home, and that is a good thing.
That is why I rebuke you.
Tone Trolling from the butthurt religious isn’t exactly a new thing here at DWR. Rest assured your belief in the supernatural shall continue to be mocked and derided, as firm belief in magic is just silly.
That is why I despise your very nature.
It is always good to make internet friends, even wacky ones like you. The internet is a large place, if the message you are getting here is distasteful to your sensibilities I suggest you go elsewhere; for instance try here, it is full of people just like yourself, I sense it would be a good fit.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 9:16 pm
The Arbourist
I suggest you mind your trolling, you’ve been banned before for similar actions and should not push your luck.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 11:07 pm
The Unrepublican
Why is it when I post my mind, you call it trolling?
A troll is someone who hides behind a computer and strives to get a rise out of people. I am doing no such thing – I speak who I am, and it is who I am that offends people. So be it.
I also sense a bit of a double standard. Bleatmop said some pretty bad things to me, yet, you threaten me.
If you are going to disagree with my views, you can at least be fair.
LikeLike
January 3, 2012 at 11:11 pm
The Unrepublican
…delusional religious thought…magic book…mythology…
Interesting theory.
LikeLike
January 4, 2012 at 1:37 pm
Mystro
Unrepublican – “Rape and genocide? No. Does not endorse them…How about some data to back up that conjecture, peon…He needs to keep his cool. That is the sign of a weak mind. Losing one’s cool.”
You call someone a peon then rebuke them for getting angry about it. You instigate hostilities with name calling then claim to be the one ‘playing it cool’.
This behavior matches fairly closely to your own definition of a troll. Well done on answering your own question, “Why is it when I post my mind, you call it trolling?”
As to your request for data re rape and genocide in the bible, there are many examples, but for starters, try Numbers 31:7-18. Every man woman and child is killed (genocide) except for the virgin girls which are distributed to the followers of god (rape).
You could also just google ‘rape in the bible’ and see what “wisdom” flows forth.
LikeLike
January 5, 2012 at 5:20 am
The Unrepublican
That is debatable.
I do know that in the Bible, there have been men killed for rape. And if not for bleeding hearts, rape would still be a crime worth of death (It would be, if I had my way).
There are feminists who, quite foolishly, maintain that women who are bedded my their husbands are being raped.
I have no real cause or desire to argue semantics with you or anyone else here on this blog. So it you don’t mind, I will take a bow.
Farewell.
LikeLike
January 5, 2012 at 7:40 am
The Arbourist
*Sincerely hopes flounce sticks this time*
LikeLike
January 5, 2012 at 5:48 pm
Alan Scott
I have to ask why you are so hateful of Christianity ? Now I doubt you give a damn about slavery or killings that happened thousands of years ago . So whatever would cause so much venom ?
LikeLike
January 5, 2012 at 10:22 pm
The Arbourist
Part of the reason is that people attempt to base their morality on religious tenets and much of the time things go downhill from there. Sometimes the religious argue for objective morality as what is said in their book of choice, but even in said book the rules are broken and self-refuting.
Much of my opposition to religion comes from the idea that we are somehow flawed, or broken and need some supernatural arbiter to punish us when bad and reward us when good. We know too much about the world now to really take the idea of deities and demigods seriously (depending on who you ask, of course). Religion takes people farther away from rational thought and critical assessment of the important decisions in their lives, it is a barrier to progress and a hindrance to people tolerating each other living in society.
That isn’t everything, but a not a bad start.
LikeLike
January 5, 2012 at 10:56 pm
The Unrepublican
Now, you see. Honesty and civility.
You would be surprised how much of this post I actually agree with. Probably 90% of it.
My issue with you has never been your beliefs (although I feel your issue with me is my beliefs), but the way you go about demonstrating them.
State what you believe and why, and I would never have a problem with that – especially when I agree with most of it.
But berate entire groups of people for believing different than yourself, trying your best to make them look foolish for what you believe is foolish, and regardless of whether I agree with your point, I will fight fire with fire. It is not atheism I am against, no more than christianity. It is arrogance.
I cannot stand those who think they know better than other people. I am a relativist, in a sense.
No one knows better than the next, regardless of whether we quote from a science book or a religious book. The reasons you can give to make your views seem more logical, they can give just as many different reasons why their views are the more logical. You use science as your vindication, and feel it is the only thing worthy of believing in, but the religious feel the exact same way about what they believe.
LikeLike
January 6, 2012 at 5:34 am
Alan Scott
You have problems with modern Christianity so you use mostly ancient Jewish history to attack it . If you and I lived in that ancient time, chances are good we would have been either slaves or slave holders. Times were tough and even a rich slave holder struggled with survival. An Atheist such as yourself would have only his small conscience to restrain himself from beating a slave to death, when that slave failed him . Much of the Biblical passages that are cited are limits on what a master could do to his property . And to believe that you would act in a modern way if you were suddenly put in that time and place is not believable.
In the modern world, why don’t you just ignore the Christians ? You have not cited how they are negatively impacting you.
LikeLike
January 6, 2012 at 10:31 am
The Unrepublican
They are fighting a war, Alan.
The end justifies the means.
If they can defeat Christianity, then it doesn’t really matter if they were fair about it.
All is fair in love and war.
And this is war.
LikeLike
January 6, 2012 at 6:39 pm
bleatmop
“You have problems with modern Christianity so you use
mostly ancient Jewish historythe bible, aka the Christian Holy Book, aka the Word of God to attack it .”There, fixed it for you.
LikeLike
January 7, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Alan Scott
bleatmop,
” There, fixed it for you. ”
No you did not. So tell me, are you as anti Judaism as you are anti Christian ? Answer the question .
LikeLike
January 7, 2012 at 7:10 pm
bleatmop
“Answer the question .”
I’ll just assume you forgot to add a please in there, so that it was a request and not a command. To answer your question, yes I hold all superstitious beliefs, from Christianity to Reiki and many others, in disdain. Not the people, just the beliefs. I also hold the people that try and shove superstition down our throats, or use those beliefs to justify bigotry, with disdain as well.
I might add, having never met a person of Jewish decent or someone that is practising Judaism, it has never touched my life. I tend to concentrate on christianity because I am immersed in it.
LikeLike
January 7, 2012 at 9:41 pm
Alan Scott
bleatmop,
Christianity is a descendent of Judaism. The parts of the Bible used on this board to attack Christianity are in the majority pre Christian Judaism . But as you have admitted , you don’t really care to attack Judaism, even though you are using it’s history to attack Christian beliefs. So it really is what today’s Christians practice that warrants your anger, not Old Testament slavery.
That makes all of the references to Christian beliefs linking back to the Old Testament God, nothing more than irrelevances .
Where have you lived your whole life that you never met someone practicing the Jewish religion ? Your limited life experience is telling .
LikeLike
January 8, 2012 at 1:42 am
bleatmop
“But as you have admitted , you don’t really care to attack Judaism, even though you are using it’s history to attack Christian beliefs.”
Nope, not what I admitted. Nice try though. Nor do I need to use its history to attack christianity. The bible is more than enough. You know, that whole word of god thing.
“Where have you lived your whole life that you never met someone practicing the Jewish religion ? Your limited life experience is telling .”
Somewhere where there are not any of Jewish people, obviously. There are also not a lot of Mongolian people here either. Does that also mean that I’m inexperienced too, or could it just mean that there are no immigrants here from that particular area of the world? Your limited ability to reason is telling.
LikeLike
January 8, 2012 at 11:42 am
The Arbourist
You have not cited how they are negatively impacting you.
True enough. Lets start with these 10 items. By no means a complete or comprehensive list, but a good start.
LikeLike
January 8, 2012 at 11:50 am
The Arbourist
Belief in mythology is the problem, because you tend to get poor outcomes back here in reality when you base your thoughts and actions on magic.
If they can defeat Christianity, then it doesn’t really matter if they were fair about it.
Not enough lions around these days. :> But seriously, why such grandiose terms? I appreciate the sentiment, but the fate of christianity does not hinge on the musings posted on one lightly trafficked blog.
LikeLike
January 14, 2012 at 11:28 am
The Arbourist
Another little sad tidbit. Christian love and compassion in action.
LikeLike