Canadian cogitations about politics, social issues, and science. Vituperation optional.
Another bit of well crafted insight into some of the subtle rules that govern our society.
The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
Ben Eastaugh and Chris Sternal-Johnson.
Religion. Politics. Life.
Solve ALL the Problems
Art, health, civilizations, photography, nature, books, recipes, etc.
Independent source for the top stories in worldwide gender identity news
LESBIAN SF & FANTASY WRITER, & ADVENTURER
herstory. poetry. recipes. rants.
Communications, politics, peace and justice
Transgender Teacher and Journalist
Conceptual spaces: politics, philosophy, art, literature, religion, cultural history
Loving, Growing, Being
A topnotch WordPress.com site
Life After an Emotionally Abusive Relationship
No product, no face paint. I am enough.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Observations and analysis on survival, love and struggle
the feminist exhibition space at the university of alberta
About gender, identity, parenting and containing multitudes
Spreading the dangerous disease of radical feminism
Not Afraid Of Virginia Woolf
The Evolution Will Not BeTelevised
writer, doctor, wearer of many hats
Teaching Artist/ Progressive Educator
Identifying as female since the dawn of time.
A blog by Helen Saxby
A blog in support of Helen Steel
Where media credibility has been reborn.
Memoirs of a Butch Lesbian
Radical Feminism Discourse
deconstructing identity and culture
Fighting For Female Liberation from Patriarchy
Politics, things that make you think, and recreational breaks
cranky. joyful. radical. funny. feminist.
Movement for the Abolition of Prostitution
These are the best links shared by people working with WordPress
Gender is the Problem, Not the Solution
Peak Trans and other feminist topics
if you don't like the news, make some of your own
Musing over important things. More questions than answers.
short commentaries, pretty pictures and strong opinions
gender-critical sex-negative intersectional radical feminism
bleatmop
Mystro
Dead Wild Roses 
19 comments
December 19, 2013 at 10:29 am
Matthew Chiglinsky
Some of this originates in nature. Men are natural leaders, stemming from their biology. It’s the male animal who impregnates the female. He is the predator. She is the prey. For the prey to suddenly try to lead feels unnatural (bossy and pushy, relatively speaking, as the video calls it).
I see no problem with a woman having a career if she has no children. That’s not selfish. But if she has children then someone should breastfeed them and care for them. The man can’t breastfeed, and a bottle is nothing like real, warm breasts. (I’m not being a pervert. I was actually breastfed as a child.) I would also much rather be held and cared for by the gentle nature of a woman if I was sick or hurt — those things are the essence of femininity — and so a woman denying this natural gift to her children would be selfish.
But I think the man and the woman in the bathroom are both vain, and I think the fancily-dressed man and woman walking across the street are both pretentious show-offs.
I’m male, but I was raised by my single mother, and my first two childhood friends were female, so I’ve absorbed a lot of female energy in my life. That might account for me seeing men and women as relative equals (with minor objective differences introduced by biology). You can be sure when I criticize female behavior that I always apply the same principle to males to see if it fits. (I also defend women a lot.) There’s even a post on my blog dedicated to “slut shaming” men (but I know you don’t like links in your blog comments so I won’t post the link).
I like that song “Mad World” featured in the movie Donnie Darko (which I think is originally by Tears For Fears). I used to think about it when I got depressed out how empty and meaningless modern society is.
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 11:08 am
syrbal-labrys
That was rather splendidly done, wasn’t it?
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 11:09 am
syrbal-labrys
Matthew? You say that men and women are equals and yet say men are natural leaders? Just a hint…but you are doing it wrong.
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 1:20 pm
The Arbourist
@Syrbal
Agreed. :)
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 1:24 pm
The Arbourist
Men are natural leaders, stemming from their biology.
Citation needed.
This on going naturalistic fallacy needs to stop.
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Matthew Chiglinsky
Although, the reason why women are considered more vain than men is because frankly they put more effort into their appearances. Men don’t wear makeup, and their clothing is simpler, less colorful, and generally less extravagant.
No one forces you to shave your legs either. What do you think, men would stop having sex with you if you didn’t? What if you all did it? What if you all rebelled? Men would have to accept it then. Men do want sex, you know.
Once again, women oppress themselves.
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 2:54 pm
bleatmop
Arb – I love how Matthew reads like a MRA blog. He’s got it all, victim blaming, naturalistic fallacy, and the ability to outright contradict himself in a single comment. I’m starting to be convinced that he is either a the greatest troll to grace the internet, the MRA equivalent of a Poe, or just yet another brain addled MRA. It’s so hard to tell these days.
LikeLike
December 19, 2013 at 5:23 pm
Mystro
@Matthew Chiglinsky
Wow. I haven’t seen this much wrong in so few words in a long time. I don’t know which side of bleatmop’s Poe speculation is giving you the benefit of the doubt, as either way your comments are reprehensible. So let’s dive in.
“frankly they put more effort into their appearances”
frankly society puts more pressure on them to be pretty. I can’t remember exactly how the quote goes but it’s something like, “Until they can walk down a street with a pot belly and a bald head and still think that they are beautiful, women will never be equal to men”. It’s true society is quite shallow towards everyone, but those pressures are visited ten times upon women relative to men (estimating conservatively).
“What do you think, men would stop having sex with you if you didn’t?”
The ol’ “the only concern women have is to be desirable to men” mentality, eh? There’s no level of naivety that excuses this kind of idiotic nonsense. Time to recognize some agency in people outside your sex, Mr.”female engergy”.
“What if you all rebelled? Men would have to accept it then”
So either women organize a world wide revolt to overturn millennia-old double standards every time they want to get dressed, or it’s their fault if they get oppressed? How many deeply entrenched societal norms did you have to overturn when you made your make-up and shaving decisions?
“Men do want sex, you know.”
Respect for women should not be dependent on how much they allow or withhold sex from men. It should just happen. Further, and I know this may shock you, women actually deserve respect from men they have zero interest in having sex with.
“women oppress themselves”
Mind-blowingly stupid. See above.
To sum up, work on some empathy. Step 1 is getting your head out of your own arse.
LikeLike
December 20, 2013 at 10:11 am
VR Kaine
@ Matthew:
“Men are natural leaders, stemming from their biology.” Um, no.
In my part of the world (organizational behavior which covers everything from military to corporate to volunteer/non-profit/charitable organizational behavior), the “made and not born” argument has been debunked and thoroughly disproven since the 1960’s (see Blanchard & Hersey for example, on Situational Leadership). There may be a disposition in certain men OR women towards leadership due to genetic inheritance but that is far, far, from genetic determinism.
Furthermore, what’s been proven is that the most effective leaders possess what is (still poorly) described as male and a female energy, so your statement is false in that respect as well. Consider that most male wannabe-leaders exhibit mostly “male” characteristics, becoming real leaders would require them to get “more female”. Research has shown that the best leaders in any category are those who can who can not only move quickly and easily from male to female energy where needed (hard vs. soft, relationship vs. task behavior, yin vs. yang, etc.) but can also teach others to do so as well.
So why can’t women exhibit the “male” energy they exhibit with grace and without worry? Enter societal norms. “Female energy” to many men appears as weakness and vulnerability. “Male energy” to many women appears as arrogance, bitchiness, etc. or worse – as though it’s the only kind of strength in a “man’s world”. Add to this millions of people who have succumbed and accepted media stereotypes supporting and propogating these views as part of the environment we live in, and this problem becomes way worse.
You and I might argue that people need to “nut up” and stop worrying about what other people think, but it’s not that easy or simple. It ignores the bigger picture about power for one, and individual health and happiness for another, especially when it comes to women.
For instance, there’s a HUGE difference between deciding to be attractive to the opposite sex and feeling like one HAS to be attractive (i.e. feeling forced to be attractive) otherwise they don’t deserve to live in this world.. Likewise, there’s a huge difference between feeling powerful vs. feeling like if I exert my own power, initiative, aggressiveness, etc. that I’m going to feel like I don’t deserve to live in this world. Consider, for a moment, the male pushback here – men complain that women want us “wussified” – i.e. not exerting our power – and we complain that it makes us feel unworthy. Amply that 1000x and consider it for women! But I digress…
Yes, a healthy individual should ultimately decide whose opinions matter and whose don’t, but those statements assume that power exists in that individual to begin with. I think it does no matter what, but I recognize that our environments play a huge, if not actually defining role in our core guiding beliefs and that has to be taken into account, and I know that even the most strongest minds can be broken and brainwashed. What if someone has taken the power away from you to believe that your own life no longer matters, or that your thoughts don’t make a difference? You can’t simply disagree with those statements and all of a sudden have that power back.
I don’t care who you are – if everyone around you kept telling you that you were ugly, weak, worthless – or to the other side, a bitch, an a$$hole, a warmonger – and rejecting you as such, you’d eventually start questioning your own beliefs. If it was happening continually, the results would be more profound. The “biology” you talk about would start to kick in and you’d either become the a$$hole on the one hand – or depressed or even suicidal on the other – in order to make those inside and outside views congruent. Human psychology requires this balance and we all do it.
The point here is that males continue to foster those negative beliefs about women in the environment, and for every time I think we’ve made good progress otherwise, you hear of a teen getting harassed as “ugly” on the Internet to the point of suicide or some horrendous rape or “honor killing” in some part of the world. We’re sitting there saying, “Take responsibility for your own self-esteem” while continuing to give the neanderthals of our species the power to pull the rug out from under women and with that, often remove their ability to take that responsibility. We tend to convince them, as a society, that the responsibility is ours, not theirs, as to what self-esteem they should have and that’s what they’re saying here is wrong, and I agree.
Do I agree with automatic and perpetual victimhood? Hardly, but with respect, saying, “Hey, that’s just biology so suck it up” does more to promote and perpetuate that victimhood, don’t you think? At the very least, it’s a bad choice of words. I’ve been guilty of this, but “Hey, we shoulld reccognize and celebrate our differences” might be a better starting point. :)
Sorry for the long diatribe here, but I thought I’d offer a “softer” response to your comments here where I disagree with as opposed to what you’ll probably get from everyone else.
And to the MRA comment for all of us, some last food for thought if I may? No great general ever stood on the field of battle and cried, “That’s not fair!”. Furthermore, no true great leader ever told someone injured or wounded anything other than “You’re brave, I’m here to help, and you’re going to make it”, so what is the MRA doing? Being a bunch of whiners and losers to me. Even if there is a so-called battle, that’s not how leaders win it.
LikeLike
December 20, 2013 at 10:17 am
The Intransigent One
A comment I never expected to make on this blog:
Fuck yeah Vern! Preach it!
LikeLike
December 20, 2013 at 10:40 am
The Arbourist
@Vern
Well said. Thank you for taking the time to explain to Matthew some of the issues with his arguments. It may be vain, but that does not sully such a brilliant comment. :)
Addendum on our MRA friends and their activism.
LikeLike
December 20, 2013 at 11:35 am
The Arbourist
@Matthew
Let’s stop and talk awhile.
Mathew, our relationship started because you wrote some seriously horrendous shit about women and their role in society.
Your article highlights a lack of understanding, empathy and respect for women. Your comments here are almost always in the same vein and have been jumped on, exactly for that reason, by our commentariat and fine stable of writers here at DWR.
It’s not nice being taken down repeatedly so I suggest that before you make *any* more comments here you go read, and then take some time to contemplate the points being made by Harriet J. at Fugitivus. See that list she starts with, you’ve done most of those here in one form or another.
Stop it, or I will.
As, founder of this blog it my responsibility to ensure that this is a safe space where people can discuss issues and problems without having to play 101-level catch up with dudes all the time.
So take the time, if you wish to continue comment here, to understand the nature of this space and you will be welcome. (Reading hints, #1,#2, #3)
Too much reading? Consider the alternative; the ban-hammer has been loosened from its trusty brace.
LikeLike
December 21, 2013 at 12:26 pm
Reneta Scian
I don’t know how I missed this post among all the ones you’ve made. All I can say is that this “Mathew” person is clearly clueless, and buys into the misogynistic myths of constructed gender roles. Of course you’re going to think someone is “bossy” if you underneath believe that their gender makes them incompetent at their job. I sincerely hope he gets a clue, or at least a good 2 X 4 with “Clue” burned into it to smack himself with when he gets such asinine thoughts. By the way, that video is awesome, mew :3
LikeLike
December 21, 2013 at 1:10 pm
The Arbourist
@Reneta
The post feed RSS on my blog was broken by the last wordpress update. So unless you came to DWR, you would not see the new posts. That problem has been rectified by WP staff. My apologies for the DWR “blackout”.
Matthew has a lot of wrong ideas on a myriad of topics. The fail runs deep and true.
You and me both. I doubt it, the douche is strong with this one.
It’s been making the rounds on tumblr and some other platforms, but it is too good not post.
LikeLike
December 21, 2013 at 2:08 pm
Reneta Scian
Aye, you are quite right as it is quite good. And I’ll apologize in advance, because this’ll be a long comment. Often I find myself between a rock and a hard place with regards to gender roles/norms and stereotypes, as I have for most of my life. All of it troubling, of course. As a trans* person, gender stereotypes have a slightly different impact on me. I grew up taking care of my little brother from as early as 7 years of age. Also, as a result of my identification and role as a caregiver, as well as my relationship with my mother I learned a lot of “life skills” from her instead. Those, life skills and roles were something I enjoyed growing up in some fashion. As an adult (still male role at the time) I dreamed of being a stay an home parent, and proverbial “Martha Stewart”. I had other dreams, like writing books, composing music, and painting amazing paintings, but I am, and always have been, an amazing caregiver. So I was called a fag by my co-workers, and given awkward nicknames, or called “Suzy Homemaker” at times (and not in a complementary way).
It was wrong for me to embrace those roles that I either enjoyed, or felt I excelled at because it made me “A pussy” in their eyes. While the home, and family are the most important things to me, they have never been all that defined me. Far from it. I’ve had people, now that I exist in the role of “woman”, tell me that I’m just reinforcing gender stereotypes (usually transphobic radfems). Or even, that somehow the things I like have anything to do with me being a woman, instead of a man, or that maybe how I was raised “confused me” (more reinforcement that certain roles are ‘innately feminine’). Like, my love of babies, children, kitties, and puppies, and all cute things, and cooking and caring for people I love and my skill at it somehow is what makes me a woman, which it doesn’t. When they describe me like that, it doesn’t matter that I’m a painter, thinker, philosopher, atheists, author, musician, or singer. Because when I’m “A woman” everything about me but that which makes me womanly disappears.
It’s hard to piece yourself together in the eyes of other people when everything about how you present gender is either use to legitimize who you are, or delegitimize who you are. That my choice to wear t-shirts and jeans or not makes the difference between whether I’m not trying hard enough, and therefore a man, and I’m trying too hard and therefore a man. And I see so many people make this same mistake, feminist and those who aren’t alike. This battle about who gets to be a “real” woman and what makes me valid as that. This battle isn’t just about our genitals though. People assume because I’m assigned male at birth that I was raised like a man. But I wasn’t. I couldn’t be more aware of gender roles, stereotypes, and norms if I was groped by a drunk man on a bus while people (who read me as a woman just looked on like nothing had happened), or if I was told by my father that my gender identity meant I needed to “grow up and man up, put my pants back on and be a man”.
I saw the RPoJ (red pen of justice) post about something Mathew wrote, (which I realized after looking at the link in the comments). It just makes me sick, and upset. I love your writings, and when I see stuff like that I have to stop and check it out. But, I just don’t have the strength to read through it all the way anymore, even for as much as I like your burns you throw at that nonsense. Especially the fetid nonsense he wrote. Because I remember ever slur I’ve ever felt the sting of, and every joke my non-conforming gender made me the butt of. I remember every piece of biological existentialistic crap I’ve heard over the years, and every religious excuse to not see me as a human being. Because through binary colored goggles, I’m the thing that just doesn’t fit. Gender roles, by extension are part of the gender binary, or the false belief that there is to polar genders that are opposed to each other and thusly the origin of gender related false dichotomies. Given my relationship with gender roles, norms and stereotypes, it just makes me sick anymore when I see nonsense like what men like Mathew, and others spew. I’m happy, and grateful to those like you who take the time to dismantle it, and rebuke it.
That’s, in a nutshell, why I started writing books instead of blogs. I just don’t have the patience or stomach to deal with people like that. But I’m happy that you do, and I’ll continue to keep up with your posts. Thanks again.
LikeLike
December 21, 2013 at 11:25 pm
bleatmop
One thing that I missed is that this is an advertisement for Pantene. I’m starting to read some criticism on this because it’s basically pandering. I’m not sure where I stand on this ad, when it comes to this light. It does seem to send a powerful message, one that needs to be saw by people who are on the internets but at the same time you could argue that it is saying that you can only be empowered by purchasing their shampoo.
Personally, critiques aside, I think this ad will have a net good. If nothing else, it’s bringing an important issue to light. Having a feminism message being co-opted and then perhaps defined by beauty product marketing groups does seem particularly troubling, should that day come. Although, it’s not like others haven’t tried to play the card that they are a feminist even though they were precisely not (cough cough Sarah Palin).
LikeLike
December 22, 2013 at 8:35 am
The Arbourist
@bleatmop
Advertising people will use what ever tactics necessary to hawk their product. If they have to use feminist ideas and the application of those ideas are shown in a positive way, I think that I would have to agree with you that the net result is positive, despite the commercial nature.
Also, consider the medium – on TV with the eyes glazed over, I doubt that many would even pay attention to the add. But here on a blog where we have the time and luxury of contemplative thought, the message can be regarded in a much more positive light, while disregarding the ad bits at the end.
LikeLike
December 22, 2013 at 8:45 am
The Arbourist
@Reneta
You are welcome Reneta. :)
It is quite troubling that we still have to deal with the sorta of stuff that dudes bring to the table. Moving back the Fail, centimeter by centimeter is the only way to combat systemic problems.
Take care over the holiday season Reneta.
LikeLike
December 26, 2013 at 6:23 pm
VR Kaine
Arb & IO,
WordPress’s comment indicator hadn’t informed me of these replies, so they’re late. Just wanted to extend some “thank you”‘s:
@IO: You said,
“A comment I never expected to make on this blog: Fuck yeah Vern! Preach it!”
Haha! (insert hockey cellie here!) Thanks and you’re welcome, IO. Happy to (good-)surprise ya, and of course, happy Holdays. :)
@Arb: You said,
“Well said. Thank you for taking the time to explain to Matthew some of the issues with his arguments. It may be vain, but that does not sully such a brilliant comment. :)”
Thanks, Arb – “Brilliant” is a tremendous compliment. Glad the comment was appreciate and worthy.
LikeLike