This post has to do with god and how the concept is framed by the concept of evil. Epicurus stated the problem elegantly with this argument.
- If a perfectly good god exists, then there is no evil in the world.
- There is evil in the world.
- Therefore, a perfectly good god does not exist.
Another conclusion that can be drawn from this is that god is either impotent or uncaring as this video from FFreethinker so brilliantly points out – its called God’s Divine Plan.
I wanted to mention the case of Joseph and Elisabeth Fritzl. This is the case in the media of the Austrian Father who held his daughter as a prisoner/sex slave for 24 years until she finally escaped.
Many religions claim there is a god watching over us, listening to us, and answering our prayers. My question is this, where the frack
was god for Elisabeth Fritzl? What greater good could come of someone being incestuously assaulted for 24 years? The god people worship stood back, with arms crossed, for almost a quarter century and did absolutely NOTHING.
Why would you hold such a being as holy? How perfectly monstrous. We can talk of his inaction when it comes to rape, genocide, murder etc. Why would a being that supposedly cares for us allow evil of this sort to exist.
The answer is that he is fictitious, a man made construct, built to keep the gullible in line. Endorse this delusion at your own peril.
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27 comments
June 16, 2009 at 3:16 pm
Intransigentia
Isn’t it interesting that many god-believers would impose an affirmative moral duty on mortal women to support the life of any fertilized egg that happens to implant in her womb by going through nine months of pregnancy followed by childbirth, yet absolve God of any duty to help anybody, no matter how badly they’re suffering.
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June 16, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Katie
I love this blog!!! I am the biggest pro-choice Atheist you will ever meet. (=
Okay, so there is one strong piece of evidence that there is no God. In the Bible, it was promised that whatever a person asks for in prayer will be answered. I will provide references in a moment. So if one prays for a cure for cancer of AIDS, it should happen (and of course pray for this and of course it doesn’t happen) or world peace (ditto) or for the people in Africa to stop reproducing and starving (ditto). So there you go, prayers clearly have been going unanswered for centuries, and yet some of us still going on blindly believing it’s God’s plans or whatnot.
My personal example: I suffer from bipolar disorder. One of the side effects of bipolar disorder is psychosis, which can include hallucinations and suicide thoughts and actions. A few nights ago, I seriously, SERIOUSLY wanted to die, my life was so bad (let’s not even ask God where he’s been my whole life to let it become so bad). I squeezed my eyes shut and prayed, “Please, PLEASE let me die. I don’t want to wake up in the morning. I can’t do this anymore.” And guess what, I’m alive as I am typing this now, so you can bet my prayer didn’t work.
Many people would argue that you have to be a true believer in order for the prayers to work. Well, what about all the true believers praying for cancer cures and world peace? Why aren’t their prayers being answered? Why? Because God is made-up and all of his believers will keep making up excuses for the fact that he doesn’t answer prayers or doesn’t show himself, just like they’re been doing for thousands of years.
Don’t use the God’s plan argument please. You can’t be serious in saying that an all-loving, all-powerful and caring God would actually wish some of the horrors of this world on the good people, because let’s face it, good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people, and if that’s not God’s plan, I don’t know what is.
http://godisimaginary.com/i1.htm
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June 17, 2009 at 8:19 am
Twenty Five Year Old Woman
God is good; it’s people that are evil. I recommend reading the entire bible through to really learn who He is. My favorite translation is The Message Bible. Please read it before you decide who you think God is.
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June 17, 2009 at 9:03 am
Katie
If YOU had read the Bible, you would know that it is actually an evil book that condones racism, sexism, and all sorts of violence, especially toward women. Your God is a biased, hating God who created faulty humans in his own image and then blamed them for his own faults.
I can cite examples if you’d like to see how it is the Bible is so twisted and corrupt because it is. I have only just recently started using Christians’ own book against them. Besides the selective reading that you are force-fed in church, have you ever done any EXTENSIVE reading of the Bible?? If you had, you’d know that, for example, God condones slavery, abuse toward women, and stoning people to death for crimes we consider minor or nonexistent today, such as stoning a defiant teenager.
Start showing me examples of a loving God who does not damn you to Hell for not believing in him and for not being the cookie-cutter of what he wants you to be (straight, white, male, Christian) and I will show you an example of how he’s not loving. For every example you find, I will find many more.
Source: http://godlovesatheists.wordpress.com/
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June 17, 2009 at 9:28 am
Twenty Five Year Old Woman
I have the read the Bible and I continue to read it everyday. You are very pious which hurts trying to make your point because I’m left with thinking about how rude you are instead of what you’re actually saying. I’m not in the mood to fight. I’ve posted a blog that you may want to read. It’s at http://twentyfiveyears.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/what-if-youre-wrong/ Read it if you’d like or not. I’m praying for you
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June 17, 2009 at 11:58 am
Intransigentia
lol, I’ve never heard an atheist called pious before!
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June 17, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Katie
Doesn’t “pious” mean “holy” or “religious”?
I find that offending!!!!! :P
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June 17, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Twenty Five Year Old Woman
Sorry, I should have used the word arrogant
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June 17, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Katie
You are trying to tell Christina and I in the abortion debate page that we should not pass judgments on you because we do not know you. I’ll keep the abortion part of it out of this, as I already responded to that in the appropriate room, but…if you don’t like people making judgments on you, stop making judgments on other people.
In other words, look who’s talking! You sound pretty arrogant to me.
And how do you confuse the words “pious” and “arrogant”?
You are wrong about reading the Bible because had you actually read the Bible, you would see that it does in fact condone slavery, sexism, racism, violence against women and children, and religious intolerance, among other things. Unless you don’t find these things an issue, I really don’t understand how you can read the Bible and not pick up on this. It’s there in text, plain and simple. I can provide sources.
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June 17, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Twenty Five Year Old Woman
Katie, God bless your heart and your soul. I guess we’ll all find out the truth when we take our last breaths.
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June 17, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Katie
I really don’t need your blessing.
We have the fossils, we win.
If we’re all doomed to hell, then where are we now?
Should I keep going?
In America, we have the right to believe in whatever religion we want. That includes Atheism as the belief that there are no “gods”. Yes, it is a religion if only for the fact that we believe in something collectively. We believe that there is no correct religion, and there is no God.
Besides, why the hell would I want to go to heaven and look down through the clouds or whatever and see everyone suffering anyway? I don’t need that. Send me to hell, it’s gotta be better than this.
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June 17, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Twenty Five Year Old Woman
I hope and pray that you change your thoughts some day and come to know Christ (the real Jesus Christ, not the one you think He is) so that you don’t get what you’re currently asking for. Being tormented in a lake of fire, burning for all of eternity because you put yourself there sounds beyond awful to me. I’m begging God to show Himself to you and that He’ll show the real you to you. You’ll be surprised at what you see. And that’s the last the I’ll be checking this blog too.
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June 17, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Intransigentia
Who is the real Jesus and the real God? It looks like Katie has a pretty decent understanding of the one in the Bible based on what’s written there. Are there other sources she should be consulting?
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June 17, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Katie
Yes, Intra, who is the “real Jesus” anyway? The one who says “Love me or die?” Would I love my boyfriend if he said “Love me or die”? I’d call the cops. As far as I’m concerned, there is no God. That’s why all of these prayers have gone unanswered for thousands of years, for World Peace, for cures of cancer and AIDS, for starving babies in Africa. Stop making excuses and trying to cover up the fact that God doesn’t exist.
And you can pray all you want. Prayer has no effect on outcome. It didn’t work when my mom prayed to save the life of my cat to cancer almost three years ago. He’s dead. She thanks God he is in a better place. I ask her, “Mom, it’s God’s fault your cat is dead in the first place. Why are you THANKING him?” You people contradict yourselves left and right. And let’s not forget there is no better justification of hate, intolerance, and forcing your beliefs on others than the Bible, (or religion in general).
This is a very good Atheist website that gives sound argument for why prayer has no effect on outcome, and therefore why God doesn’t exist, (and a lot of other reasons too). http://godisimaginary.com/i2.htm
If that woman comes back on this site and says anything else I will laugh in her face. We all know she’s reading it anyway and just won’t say anything. :P
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June 17, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Intransigentia
She has a whiny post up on her own blog about how conservatives and Christians are so oppressed for expressing their opinions.
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June 17, 2009 at 3:43 pm
The Arbourist
“Read it if you’d like or not. I’m praying for you”
I’ll think for you.
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June 17, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Katie
If your goal, by telling me that you will pray for me, is to offend me, then congratulations, you did.
I’m sorry if you found that offensive.
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June 17, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Trevor
man, katie and ntransigentia, you two suck! rock on 25 girl, rock on! God is AWESOME! He’s king of my life and since i’ve let Him in, my life is SOOOOOO much better! used to be an alcoholic and on drugs but praise His mighty name, I’m free from those! And it’s only cause of HIM! God is REAL and no one can tell me different
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June 17, 2009 at 8:21 pm
The Arbourist
Thanks for stopping by Katie, if you have a blog, I’d be happy to link to it.
We’ll have some fun keeping the delusional on their toes. :)
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June 17, 2009 at 8:23 pm
The Arbourist
Cool. Although why did you pick such a lame god? Why not pick Zeus? He has lightning bolts!!! You have to admit, lightning bolts are cool.
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June 17, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Trevor
so i guess you just make a joke out of everything so forget you. And don’t call my God Jesus lame. I hope He don’t strike you with one of those cool lightning bolts.
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June 18, 2009 at 10:17 am
The Arbourist
No, not really a joke, but really it is the 21st century, we need to stop believing in Sky-Daddies and arcane mysticism. It is dangerous delusional thinking which has little place in a modern rational society.
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June 18, 2009 at 11:53 am
Trevor
so i guess you think you’re tons smarter than our nation’s founding fathers…who believed in God. they had the guts and the smarts to form the U.S. and they put “in God we trust” on our money and “one nation under God” in our pledge. yeah, you’re SOOO right, they were a living a joke and they didn’t have modern rational society thinking. wow, jefferson, adams, franklin – they really suffered from “delusional thinking.” you’re a the joke, i’m through with this
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June 18, 2009 at 2:49 pm
The Arbourist
Hmmm…lets take a quick peek at some of what the founding fathers have said –
Thomas Jefferson:
“Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth.” – Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
John Adams:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” – (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 – signed by President John Adams.)
James Madison:
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” – James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
Thomas Paine:
“Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.” – Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
The founding fathers deserve to be commended they managed to construct a rational society despite the prescriptive delusional inanity that was prevalent at the time.
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June 18, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Intransigentia
Well, considering that they also didn’t appear to object to slavery, genocide, child labour, or the second-class status of everybody who’s not a white man, it’s not surprising that they might have included god-belief among their wrongheaded notions. They were certainly falling short on a good proportion of what is now considered modern rational civilization. You might also want to check out what they meant by “God” – it may not much resemble what you believe it to mean.
And while you’re at it, what makes you assume the blog owner is American? You can keep your founding fathers, thanks. I personally am very happy they did not found my country.
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July 25, 2009 at 12:53 pm
This just in – The Pope is still a Malevolent Douche-bag. « Dead Wild Roses
[…] relgious dogmatism, is causing grevious harm to millions of people. Not particularly surprising, (given the religious track record) but disheartening all the same. The “god is love” bunch really have their work cut […]
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November 30, 2009 at 8:01 am
The Ten Commandments: An exploration of Christian morality « Dead Wild Roses
[…] love and fear is akin more to the mentality of a rapist than to that of an ethics teacher. Perverse barely begins to describe how “god-fearing” is considered a virtue by […]
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