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You can find the original conversation here. As this appeared on tumblr I’ve taken some editorial liberties with correcting spelling and grammar and adding titles to the speakers. I’ve had versions of this conversation before and of course, I was not nearly as eloquent as the final response was.
POMO: Terfs are always demanding a definition of womanhood– and its like… Idk what to tell ya. Its all made up. The only reason they demand a definition is because they think womanhood is based solely around genitalia… which is ironic because who else does that? Misogynistic cis men…👀
Material Reality: This is so incoherent lmfao
POMO: is it incoherent to you because you are uncomfortable that your politics line up with misogynists…? 🤔
MR: I don’t really care if you believe me or not but gender is made up. Its fake. Pretending there are “biological truths” to gender is not only illogical but hurts women.
MR: Also frankly I don’t give a fuck what you think of this post. It’s rather short and straightforward and you not understanding kind of seems like a personal problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MR: Gender isn’t real, any radfem can tell you this lol we invented that just so you know. What’s incoherent is that if gender doesn’t exist, which is doesn’t, then the only way to define a woman is an adult human female :)
POMO: And here we get to the major issue.. which is that you seem to think that the (also fake, also constructed) “biological” naming of gender is somehow the “valid” version… is that it? Because if we are being honest here, what you just wrote is incomprehensible and laughably hypocritical.
POMO: If you want to continue putting people in boxes based on the shape of their genitalia (which i wouldn’t advise because quite frankly its reductive and insulting) then you should just use the technical terms. Acting like you believe and understand that gender is fake while simultaneously and desperately clinging to biological essentialism is inherently contradictory.
POMO: The thing is, you are still assigning gender to people, you’re just using different words. and to be quite honest, the only people who reduce women to their genitalia and call women “human females” are misogynistic cis men, which brings me back full circle to my original point which is to say that you lot have more in common with misogynists and there is really no way around it. You can keep trying to deny it but you simply cant make the above statement insisting that it makes any kind of sense. it just doesn’t. The fact that you refuse to see the faulty logic says more about your stubbornness and ignorance than anything else.
POMO: Now, since I’ve made my points and reblogged this ridiculous response, I will be disengaging from this conversation. Kindly read my words and do some thinking before responding, thank you.
——
MR: Postmodernism is a plague.
-Noam Chomsky
Okay. Let’s do it like this:
Did you need your daily LoLsob, well check out the headless women of hollywood tumblr and bathe in the cool waters of women decapitated, anatomized and passively portrayed for the male gaze. Misogyny, fresh from the pop cultural centre of the universe, to you, faithful readership. Whoo-haa….:/
And dudes, do note the link regarding the inevitable WATM outcry. Please follow and read it; save us both some time. :)
“The point is (of course) not that every poster we see objectifies and fragments female bodies. The point is that many do and that cutting up female bodies into consumable, sexualized parts is such an accepted and standard marketing practice across the board – people tend not to even notice.
It is something that is not done to men in the same way, but that is not dismissing problems that face men. It is merely focusing on a specific problem that affects women. (See: http://headlesswomenofhollywood.com/post/143241005563/headlesswomenofhollywood-what-about-the)
Even for movies that already objectify women as their main purpose (which maybe one day won’t be an entire genre??????) by cutting off the head of the woman on the poster, the dehumanization of her body is taken a step further. And her pleasure and consent are taken completely out of the equation.”
- If misogyny was only just “hatred of the feminine” a supposedly mystic state of being rather than oppressive norms, women could opt out at any time by simply not conforming. This is so clearly and painfully untrue almost as if… Sex-based oppression exists
^^^👌
1a. When I choose not to perform femininity out in public, the world still knows I am female. Men know what my body looks like no matter how I try to conceal and disguise it. They know my sex, my sex is female, and no matter how I identify or present myself, I will be harassed, solicited for sex, at risk of assault, and oppressed in public because I am female. This is sex-based oppression. The world doesn’t care how I identify. I have a body and my body is female and nothing I can do will stop it from happening, even if you deny sex-based oppression just please know that it is currently happening to me and it will keep happening to me regardless of how this might interfere with your political belief that sex and gender can be wholly divorced from one another (they *should be* does not mean they are).
-Found on wombynprivilege.tumblr.com
Another super-peachy-keen aspect of being female in our society – saying “no” to men can get you killed.
Thank you wing-women of the world. :) On a much more sombre note, to stop the clueless dudes from cluttering my comment section a small sample of what can happen when women say no…
- A woman says no, I don’t want to go to prom with you, and gets stabbed to death.
- A woman says no, I will not sleep with you, and a man go on a shooting spree.
- A woman says no, I will not give you my number, and is shot outside the club.
- A woman says no, I don’t want you to buy me a drink, and a man shattered a glass across her face.
- A woman say no, I’m a lesbian, and a man shoots both her and her girlfriend while they slept in their home.
- A woman says no, I don’t want to be with you any more, and a man stabs her to death and murders her dog.
- A woman says no, stop harassing these teenagers, and a group of men beat her to death with stones and bats, smashing her skull on the pavement.
- A woman says no, we aren’t married any more, leave me alone, and a man shoots her to death.
- A woman says no, we work together but I’m not interested in you romantically, and a man shoots her to death whilst she’s working.
- A woman says no, I don’t want to sleep with you, and a man rapes, murders and then hangs her from a tree.
- A woman says no, I’m not interested, and a man slashes her neck open.
- A woman says no, I never cheated on you, and a man beats her.
- A woman says no, I want a divorce, and a man cuts her neck open and stabs her multiple times.
So dudes, yes you with the hangy-bits – You want women to start telling you no? You don’t want women to play games? Teach your fellow men to stop murdering women for doing so.
Radical feminism starts with naming the problem – male violence – and working on solutions based on the material conditions of the situation.
“You can’t give orders to your employees. It’s not allowed,” he says. Actually, says Knop, managing prostitutes is completely legal. The problem is making sure you don’t cross the line between “managing” them and “exploiting” them.
Helmut Sporer, Detective Chief Superintendent of the Crimes Squad in Augsburg, Bavaria, is one of many German policemen frustrated by the law’s greyness in this area. In October, he talked at a seminar in Brussels about a “flat rate” brothel in Augsburg. “Flat rate” places pay the prostitutes for a shift, making their money from the bar and the punters’ entry fees. The women working here were given strict rules: they had to be completely naked at all times and, according to Sporer, were sometimes obliged to offer unprotected sex. If they broke a rule, they had to pay a fine to the brothel. “The court declared all this to be legal,” said Sporer, because the brothel owners had “right of direction” over the women – as they would over any other employee.”
Go read the rest of the article to reconfirm your correct notion that prostitution (in whatever form) is not good for women.
It is a comparison that is floating around more and more as the po-mo authoritarian left is stifling debate and silencing criticisms of people who happen to be against their unique vision of reality. We have here a helpful chart to compare and contrast the positions of the two parties in question.
Glad we could clear that up. Thus endeth the lesson. :)
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